Talks in Delphi - Program for June 2021

Every Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday Evening during JUNE 2021

@ Apollon Café – High Street, Delphi. (On the lovely terrace watching the sun go down.) Meet new people and learn something new.

Meet 7.00pm for a prompt 7.15 start

3 Introductory Philosophy Talks With Time for Questions and Discussion Afterward.

(by James, throughout June 2021)

3 Introductory Talks by James:

Monday Nights: 'Know Yourself’ - Socrates tells young Alcibiades; and we will look at Plato’s book ‘First Alcibiades' to help explain this ‘apparently’ easy idea. (Will include a general introduction to Plato and Socrates if you wish…..)

Tuesday Nights: ‘The Nuts and Bolts of Plato’ - Helping us to understand and enjoy Plato’s books more by looking at 3 regular themes frequent throughout his writings – Metaphysics, Psyche (the soul) and Ethics

Wednesday Nights: Plato’s Book ‘The Phaedrus' - suggesting that LOVE is an important driving force for our journey to the stars…..  

Note: No previous study of philosophy is needed to come along and enjoy the talks, while more experienced philosophers are also welcome. Talks are in English and last about 45 minutes with time for questions afterwards.

How to find us: The Apollon Cafe is in the little High Street in Greece - and we are meeting on the outside terrace at the rear of the cafe. When you arrive - please make your way through the cafe and out on to the terrace. Please find James and let him know you are there for the talk.

Cost: Places at the Delphi/June talks are limited, and need to be reserved. Tickets are offered on a ‘pay-what-you-can’ basis. (Suggested amount for those who can is 5 to 10 euros). The subject of the talk varies on different nights of the week - so please reserve your place for the correct evening at EVENTBITE.COM at:

….. or go to ‘Greek Philosophy Talks from Delphi on Eventbrite.com

To Contact James: to arrange another time for a private talk (subject to availability) for individuals and groups email:

jamestalksgreece@hotmail.com

Text for Talk - 'Know Yourself' - Gnothi Sayton

Text for talk 'Know Yourself'

 ‘Know Yourself’

'Extracts' from Plato’s First Alcibiades

(Translated by Benjamin Jowett 1817 – 1893)

(From Apx 129a) [Context – Socrates has been talking about the shoes on our feet and rings on our finger not being the actual person ‘themselves’…]

SOCRATES: Then in taking care of what belongs to you, you do not take care of yourself?

ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.

SOCRATES: For the art which takes care of our belongings appears not to be the same as that which takes care of ourselves?

ALCIBIADES: Clearly not.

SOCRATES: And now let me ask you what is the art with which we take care of ourselves?

ALCIBIADES: I cannot say.

SOCRATES: At any rate, thus much has been admitted, that the art is not one which makes 

any of our possessions, but which makes ourselves better?

ALCIBIADES: True.

SOCRATES: But should we ever have known what art makes a shoe better, if we did not know a shoe?

ALCIBIADES: Impossible.

SOCRATES: Nor should we know what art makes a ring better, if we did not know a ring?

ALCIBIADES: That is true.

SOCRATES: And can we ever know what art makes a man better, if we do not know what we are ourselves?

ALCIBIADES: Impossible.

SOCRATES: And is self-knowledge such an easy thing, and was he to be lightly esteemed who inscribed the text on the temple at Delphi? Or is self-knowledge a difficult thing, which few are able to attain?

ALCIBIADES: At times I fancy, Socrates, that anybody can know himself; at other times the task appears to be very difficult.

SOCRATES: But whether easy or difficult, Alcibiades, still there is no other way; knowing what we are, we shall know how to take care of ourselves, and if we are ignorant we shall not know.

ALCIBIADES: That is true.

SOCRATES: Well, then, let us see in what way the self-existent can be discovered by us; that will give us a chance of discovering our own existence, which otherwise we can never know.

ALCIBIADES: You say truly.

SOCRATES: Come, now, I beseech you, tell me with whom you are conversing?—with whom but with me?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: As I am, with you?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: That is to say, I, Socrates, am talking?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: And Alcibiades is my hearer?

ALCIBIADES: Yes. 

SOCRATES: And I in talking use words?

ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

SOCRATES: And talking and using words have, I suppose, the same meaning?

ALCIBIADES: To be sure.

SOCRATES: And the user is not the same as the thing which he uses?

ALCIBIADES: What do you mean?

SOCRATES: I will explain; the shoemaker, for example, uses a square tool, and a circular tool, and other tools for cutting?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: But the tool is not the same as the cutter and user of the tool?

ALCIBIADES: Of course not.

SOCRATES: And in the same way the instrument of the harper is to be distinguished from 

the harper himself?

ALCIBIADES: It is.

SOCRATES: Now the question which I asked was whether you conceive the user to be always different from that which he uses?

ALCIBIADES: I do.

SOCRATES: Then what shall we say of the shoemaker? Does he cut with his tools only or with his hands?

ALCIBIADES: With his hands as well.

SOCRATES: He uses his hands too?

[From apx First Alcibiades-129 c ]

SOCRATES [Talking about the shoemaker…]:  And does he use his eyes in cutting leather?

ALCIBIADES: He does.

SOCRATES: And we admit that the user is not the same with the things which he uses?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: Then the shoemaker and the harper are to be distinguished from the hands and feet which they use?

ALCIBIADES: Clearly.

SOCRATES: And does not a man use the whole body?

ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

SOCRATES: And that which uses is different from that which is used?

ALCIBIADES: True.

SOCRATES: Then a man is not the same as his own body?

ALCIBIADES: That is the inference.

SOCRATES: What is he, then?

ALCIBIADES: I cannot say. I do not know.

---------

SOCRATES: Nay, you can say that he is the user of the body.

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: And the user of the body is the soul?   [….. or simply X Factor / psyche ]

ALCIBIADES: Yes, the soul.

SOCRATES: And the soul rules?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: Let me make an assertion which will, I think, be universally admitted.

ALCIBIADES: What is it?

SOCRATES: That man is one of three things.

ALCIBIADES: What are they?

SOCRATES: Soul, body, or both together forming a whole.

ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

SOCRATES: But did we not say that the actual ruling principle of the body is man?

ALCIBIADES: Yes, we did.

SOCRATES: And does the body rule over itself?

ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.

SOCRATES: It is subject, as we were saying?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: Then that is not the principle which we are seeking?

ALCIBIADES: It would seem not.

SOCRATES: But may we say that the union of the two rules over the body, and 

consequently that this is man?

ALCIBIADES: Very likely.

SOCRATES: The most unlikely of all things; for if one of the members is subject, the two united cannot possibly rule.

(end of extract)

‘Plato’s Academy’ versus ‘The Platonic Academy’

‘Plato’s Academy’ versus ‘The Platonic Academy’

(the quickest of summaries….)

Extract below taken from James’ Monday night talk in Athens:
'Socrates, Plato, Know Yourself and Live Moderately’.

    

     Although tonight is not a history lesson – I do want to give you now just a few dates and facts now about Socrates and Plato. Socrates lived for 69 or 70 years and died 400 b.c.e. [….or 399 to be precise with the dates... which in most ways we do not need to be as philosophers - rather than historians)   So if we do the maths …. 400’ish B.C.E. less 70 - means Socrates was born about 469 or 470 B.C.E.   Now Socrates had many students over the years – but he did not run a school and have loads of students like a regular teacher - or usually give talks to big groups of people. (There were just a few exceptions to this…)  He spoke to small groups of people and friends and to individuals mostly. As mentioned - the most well known of these friends and students was Plato – who was born about 40 years after Socrates – so that’s about 430 B.C.  (or 428 for those who like to be precise :)   The philosophical interaction and friendship between the two of them can only of lasted about 12 to 15 years at most – which is not a long time really.

     Yet; Socrates had a profound effect on Plato – who after Socrates death (when he was still only a young man about 30) started writing down the words and ideas of his teacher and friend Socrates in books – usually as short dialogues - between Socrates and whoever he was talking to at the time. (Incidentally - Socrates sentenced to death by suicide and Plato distraught and disgusted – but we won’t go into that this evening… It’s all in Plato’s book ‘Phaedo’ if you are interested.)

     Now there is quite rightly – much academic controversy about Plato’s books in the matter of how much of what he wrote was truly Socrates words and ideas – and how much was Plato giving his own views and ideas through the mouthpiece of Socrates in his books. Remember – as 90% of what we know about Socrates comes from the books of Plato this is pretty important if you are interested in this stuff. These days, most commentators on the subject agree that probably Plato’s earlier books were closer records of the words and ideas of Socrates - than perhaps some of his later books which may of contained some (or a lot depending on your point of view) of Plato’s own ideas and stories as well.  [My own opinion on this is….. he didn’t need a mouthpiece… + often obvious when he was or was not using Socrates mouth… eg Gorgias…]

     As well as writing these books about Socrates - 10 years after Socrates death – Plato now aged about 40 – decided to open a school for philosophy – and opens the first ever ‘academy’ – Plato’s Academy …. for general studies and the study of philosophy in its various forms. This is where the word ‘academy’ comes from – literally…. ( By the way - the site of this old academy – the first ‘academy’ in the world ever - is just a 15 minute bus ride out of the centre of Athens if you are interested…. and I can tell you how to get there later if you want.)

The School of Athens is one of the most famous frescoes by the Italian Renaissance artist Raphael. It is in the Vatican Museum of Rome - and is huge! Well worth the the trip...

     So this friend and student of Socrates ‘Plato’ opens his academy 10 years after Socrates death in 399/400 B.C. and this educational institution (and I emphasise the name ‘Plato’s Academy’ ) then carries on almost uninterrupted as a place of learning in Athens– for about 400 years until 86 BCE when this original academy was closed and destroyed during the Mithridatic Wars– and the students and teachers scattered to some other cities – notably to Alexandria in Egypt.

     Then another 400 years or so later – in about 410 CE some other philosophers, now usually referred to as the Neo-Platonists, opened a new philosophy school calling it ‘the Platonic Academy’ – and in many ways revived the interest in the written texts of Plato – although some of the interpretations of the texts they gave have been controversially received by modern commentators. Some respected commentators say that the Neo-Platonists (such as Proclus) have helped to explain the deeper and hidden meanings within Plato’s original texts; but other respected commentators would say they have added their own later interpretations to the texts and have nothing much of value to add to our understanding of Plato’s writing - and indeed the central ideas of Socrates. Like many arguments, as indeed Socrates himself says in the Phaedo, there are probably good and bad points in both points of view. This is a pretty involved discussion and not one we need to concern ourselves with in any depth this evening – but something just to make you aware of. In any case this new later Platonic Academy came to an end in 529 CE when the Roman Emperor Justinian closed all the philosophical schools in Athens, of which there were several – and not just this new ‘Platonic Academy’.

     Let’s also consider all the schools, colleges and universities around the world today that study Socrates and Plato in one way or another….

     Now what on earth did all these old Platonic academies back then - and modern schools and colleges around the world today study -  and what was it about Socrates and Plato that so many people worldwide have found so important for so long?

Socrates advises us to 'Know Thyself' - or do we already know what we are ?

My previous blog post discussed the idea of 'double ignorance' and the essential two qualities a philosopher needs being to 'wonder' about things and to have the curiosity to find out things when we do not know. This blog post develops this theme with a quick look at Plato's book: The First Alcibiades - where the question is posed: Do we really know 'what' the human being is?  This question in Socratic philosophy is often summarised as the need for us all to 'Know Thyself'.....

'Socrates points out to Alcibiades that unless we are aware (or at least have it pointed out to us) that we do not know something, we will not try to find out about that thing and try to correct our lack of knowledge in that area. Socrates says, as discussed in the introduction to this book, that we will fall into the trap of being ‘doubly ignorant’. That is; firstly not knowing something; but secondly thinking that we do know about it so that we do not even bother to inform ourselves and correct this lack of knowledge. Incidentally, an ancient Oracle (places where the future was predicted and where questions about all sorts of things were thought to be answered by the Gods) once said, when asked who was the wisest man alive, that it was in fact Socrates. This confused Socrates a great deal, and the only reason he could come up with for the Oracle’s answer was that at least he knew he knew nothing which made him a lot wiser than the people who thought they knew about things when clearly they did not.

It is no problem if we do not know something – providing we realise we do not know. These days we consult lawyers and solicitors on legal matters, and accountants about financial matters. We know we are not experts in these areas and so we consult with people who are trained and experienced with these specialist subjects. We talk to doctors about medical matters, and mechanics about problems with our cars. It is normal to do so and it is no big problem not to know something providing you are aware of it and indeed admit it to yourself and others when necessary. In modern day life we consult experts on a whole range of subjects. Presidents and Prime Ministers have whole teams of specialist advisors in different areas where they know they have little or no specialist expertise or experience themselves.

All simple enough so far….. Socrates has made Alcibiades admit to himself that he lacks knowledge and experience - with politics and affairs of State in this case. However, then Socrates goes a step further by discussing that if we are going to teach ‘ourselves’ about things or otherwise look after ourselves wisely (i.e. make the best Life Choices for ourselves), then we better have some understanding at least of what ‘the self’ actually is, and this is truly what ‘Knowing Thyself’ is all about. Socrates agrees that you have to know where you are before starting a philosophical path (or any other path); but he says it is also important to know ‘what you are’, and this is what it truly means to Know Thyself in the Socratic sense. Socrates is asking:

How can we look after something well (including ourselves) if we do not even know what it is?

So what does Socrates say ‘the self’ is; or in other words: what kind of creatures are we? Well he discusses with Alcibiades that there is obviously a difference between someone taking care of their shoes and taking care of their feet. He says that the shoes are merely added on to the feet and are not the actual feet them self. Similarly, he mentions that rings are merely added on to the hands and are not the hands or indeed the actual person themselves. Alcibiades agrees as Socrates explains by asking him more short questions to answer. Socrates then points out that there is a difference between the tools a craftsman uses, such as a shoemaker using a knife to cut the leather, and the shoemaker himself. In the same way the musical instrument the musician uses is different to the actual musician who again only makes use of the instrument. Such things are only used by the 'self' and Socrates wants Alcibiades to understand the distinction between the person them self and the things he or she merely uses. Of course Alcibiades agrees to these examples, and this may all seem very obvious to us and perhaps unnecessary for Socrates to explain to Alcibiades. However, Socrates is creating universals or universal principles and truths in his young student’s mind. Socrates is getting Alcibiades to follow his path of logic and the steps of his argument one step at a time, almost like a geometric mathematical proof. (Perhaps this is another reason why Plato wrote those strange words above the entrance to his Academy?)

Socrates then makes the distinction between the eyes and hands that a shoemakers or musician makes use of compared to the shoemaker and musician themselves. Alcibiades agrees that the shoemaker and musician merely use their hands and eyes but that they are not actually the shoemaker or musician. He goes on to explain that this is the same with the arms, legs, feet, etc. that while they are used by the musician and the shoemaker they are not the actual musician or shoemaker themselves; they are just added on to whatever the musician or shoemaker actually is ‘in essence’ and are merely used by them. Let me now quote direct from Plato's dialogue what comes next (First Alcibiades-129c/d):

SOCRATES: But the tool is not the same as the cutter and user of the tool?

ALCIBIADES: Of course not.

SOCRATES: And in the same way the instrument of the harper (musician) is to be distinguished from the harper himself?

ALCIBIADES: It is.

SOCRATES: Now the question which I asked was whether you conceive the user to be always different from that which he uses

ALCIBIADES: I do.

SOCRATES: Then what shall we say of the shoemaker? Does he cut with his tools only or with his hands?

ALCIBIADES: With his hands as well.

SOCRATES: He uses his hands too?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: And does he use his eyes in cutting leather?

ALCIBIADES: He does.

SOCRATES: And we admit that the user is not the same with the things which he uses?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: Then the shoemaker and the harper are to be distinguished from the hands and feet which they use?

ALCIBIADES: Clearly.

SOCRATES: And does not a man use the whole body?

ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

SOCRATES: And that which uses is different from that which is used?

ALCIBIADES: True.

SOCRATES: Then a man is not the same as his own body

ALCIBIADES: That is the inference. 

SOCRATES: What is he, then? 

ALCIBIADES: I cannot say. [i.e. I don't know... ]

Just notice that as soon as Alcibiades says: 'I cannot say' or 'I don't know' he suddenly ceases to be doubly ignorant on this matter. He had always assumed that he at least knew what he was - and so had not thought about it much. Socrates with his questions has suddenly made him realise that he does not really know 'what' he is, and that it is something he needs to investigate and think about from now on.'

From Essay 1 of James’ new book ‘Life Choice – Important Tips From Socrates, Plato and Aristotle’ (p. 25 – 27)

See paperback at: https://www.createspace.com/6627322

See eBook at: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540552624