About This Blog

About The 'Socrates 4 Today' Project

Whether we like it or not, we all have important Life Choices to make, and these choices are largely ‘philosophical’ in nature. Knowing about some of the ideas of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle can help us all make more informed life choices today and live happier and more fulfilled lives as a result.

The Socrates 4 Today project is not an official group or institution of any kind, but rather an umbrella banner for a loose collection of friends (and occasionally friendly organisations) to carry out philosophy related activities. These friends all share the idea that the ancient (yet living) ‘real’ philosophy and wisdom of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle has relevance and importance for us all today.

While some of these friends might enjoy a more academic approach to this philosophy personally, they all share the view that philosophy is essentially a ‘practical’ subject, and is something to be applied to the way we live our lives – not just read about in a book. (Even Plato himself says, there is only so much you can learn about philosophy from a book!) Hence, there will be some blog posts about ‘practical philosophy’ projects along with the usual posts about the ideas of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle.

It is hoped that the Socrates 4 Today Project will help to make some of the central ideas and themes of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and some of the other Greek philosophers more relevant to a wider modern audience. ‘Real’ philosophy after all is said and done – is simply about giving people important tips for living a better, happier and more meaningful life. It is about making better and more informed Life Choices today, and trying to live wisely……

Showing posts with label Ethics. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Ethics. Show all posts

Tuesday, 8 June 2021

Talks in Delphi - Program for June 2021

Every Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday Evening during JUNE 2021

@ Apollon Café – High Street, Delphi. (On the lovely terrace watching the sun go down.) Meet new people and learn something new.

Meet 7.00pm for a prompt 7.15 start

3 Introductory Philosophy Talks With Time for Questions and Discussion Afterward.

(by James, throughout June 2021)

3 Introductory Talks by James:

Monday Nights: 'Know Yourself’ - Socrates tells young Alcibiades; and we will look at Plato’s book ‘First Alcibiades' to help explain this ‘apparently’ easy idea. (Will include a general introduction to Plato and Socrates if you wish…..)

Tuesday Nights: ‘The Nuts and Bolts of Plato’ - Helping us to understand and enjoy Plato’s books more by looking at 3 regular themes frequent throughout his writings – Metaphysics, Psyche (the soul) and Ethics

Wednesday Nights: Plato’s Book ‘The Phaedrus' - suggesting that LOVE is an important driving force for our journey to the stars…..  

Note: No previous study of philosophy is needed to come along and enjoy the talks, while more experienced philosophers are also welcome. Talks are in English and last about 45 minutes with time for questions afterwards.

How to find us: The Apollon Cafe is in the little High Street in Greece - and we are meeting on the outside terrace at the rear of the cafe. When you arrive - please make your way through the cafe and out on to the terrace. Please find James and let him know you are there for the talk.

Cost: Places at the Delphi/June talks are limited, and need to be reserved. Tickets are offered on a ‘pay-what-you-can’ basis. (Suggested amount for those who can is 5 to 10 euros). The subject of the talk varies on different nights of the week - so please reserve your place for the correct evening at EVENTBITE.COM at:

….. or go to ‘Greek Philosophy Talks from Delphi on Eventbrite.com

To Contact James: to arrange another time for a private talk (subject to availability) for individuals and groups email:

jamestalksgreece@hotmail.com


Saturday, 27 February 2021

Extracts of Text for ONLINE Meetup Talk on Plutarch - Weds 3rd March - 8 pm Greek Time

 Time will be limited to read text together at the talk, and so we will use only use points v, viii, and ix of the extracts below at our meetup talk on March 3rd 2021.


How Can We Measure Our Progress In Virtue (Morals) & Philosophy?

From Plutarch’s book of essays: Moralia.

(Extracts Translated to English by Arthur Richard Shilleto, M.A.)

EXTRACTS 

§ v. …………………… …….. ‘Similarly they relate of Diogenes of Sinope, when he began to be a philosopher, that the Athenians were celebrating a festival, and there were public banquets and shows and mutual festivities, and drinking and revelling all night, and he, coiled up in a corner of the market-place intending to sleep, fell into a train of thought likely seriously to turn him from his purpose and shake his resolution, for he reflected that he had adopted without any necessity a toilsome and unusual kind of life, and by his own fault sat there debarred of all the good things. At that moment, however, they say a mouse stole up and began to munch some of the crumbs of his barley-cake, and he plucked up his courage and said to himself, in a railing and chiding fashion, "What say you, Diogenes? Do your leavings give this mouse a sumptuous meal, while you, the gentleman, wail and lament because you are not getting drunk yonder and reclining on soft and luxurious couches?" Whenever such depressions of mind are not frequent, and the mind when they take place quickly recovers from them, after having put them to flight as it were, and when such annoyance and distraction is easily got rid of, then one may consider one's progress in virtue as a certainty.

§ vi. And since not only the things that in themselves shake and turn them in the opposite direction are more powerful in the case of weak philosophers, but also the serious advice of friends, and the playful and jeering objections of adversaries bend and soften people, and have ere now shaken some out of philosophy altogether, it will be no slight indication of one's progress in virtue if one takes all this very calmly, and is neither disturbed nor aggravated by people who tell us and mention to us that some of our former comrades are flourishing in kings' courts, or have married wives with dowries, or are attended by a crowd of friends when they come down to the forum to solicit some office or advocateship. He that is not moved or affected by all this is already plainly one upon whom philosophy has got a right hold; for it is impossible that we should cease to be envious of what most people admire, unless the admiration of virtue was strongly implanted in us. For over-confidence may be generated in some by anger and folly, but to despise what men admire is not possible without a true and steady elevation of mind. And so people in such a condition of mind, comparing it with that of others, pride themselves on it, and say with Solon, "We would not change virtue for wealth, for while virtue abides, wealth changes hands, and now one man, now another, has it."

 

And Diogenes compared his shifting about from Corinth to Athens, and again from Thebes to Corinth, to the different residences of the King of Persia, as his spring residence at Susa, his winter residence at Babylon, and his summer residence in Media. And Agesilaus said of the great king, "How is he better than me, if he is not more upright?" And Aristotle, writing to Antipater about Alexander, said, "that he ought not to think highly of himself because he had many subjects, for anyone who had right notions about the gods was entitled to think quite as highly of himself." And Zeno, observing that Theophrastus was admired for the number of his pupils,  said, "His choir is, I admit, larger than mine, but mine is more harmonious."

§ vii. Whenever then, by thus comparing the advantages of virtue with external things, you get rid of envies and jealousies and those things which fret and depress the minds of many who are novices in philosophy, this also is a great indication of your progress in virtue. Another and no slight indication is a change in the style of your discourses. For generally speaking all novices in philosophy adopt most such as tend to their own glorification; some, like birds, in their levity and ambition soaring to the height and brightness of physical things; others like young puppies, as Plato says, rejoicing in tearing and biting, betake themselves to strifes and questions and sophisms; but most plunging themselves into dialectics immediately store themselves for sophistry; and some collect sentences and histories and go about (as Anacharsis said he saw the Greeks used money for no other purpose but to count it up), merely piling up and comparing them, but making no practical use of them.

 

Applicable here is that saying of Antiphanes, which someone applied to Plato's pupils. Antiphanes said playfully that in a certain city words were frozen directly they were spoken, owing to the great cold, and were thawed again in the summer, so that one could then hear what had been said in the winter. So he said of the words which were spoken by Plato to young men, that most of them only understood them late in life when they were become old men. And this is the condition people are in in respect to all philosophy, until the judgement gets into a sound and healthy state, and begins to adapt itself to those things which can produce character and greatness of mind, and to seek discourses whose footsteps turn inwards rather than outwards, to borrow the language of Æsop.  For as Sophocles said he had first toned down the pompous style of Æschylus, then his harsh and over-artificial method, and had in the third place changed his manner of diction, a most important point and one that is most intimately connected with the character, so those who go in for philosophy, when they have passed from flattering and artificial discourses to such as deal with character and emotion, are beginning to make genuine and modest progress in virtue.

§ viii. Furthermore, take care, in reading the writings of philosophers or hearing their speeches, that you do not attend to words more than things, nor get attracted more by what is difficult and curious than by what is serviceable and solid and useful. And also, in studying poems or history, let nothing escape you of what is said to the point, which is likely either to correct the character or to calm the passions. For as Simonides says the bee hovers among the flowers "making the yellow honey," while others value and pluck flowers only for their beauty and fragrance, so of all that read poems for pleasure and amusement he alone that finds and gathers what is valuable seems capable of knowledge from his acquaintance with and friendship for what is noble and good.  For those who study Plato and Xenophon only for their style, and cull out only what is pure and Attic, and as it were the dew and the bloom, do they not resemble people who love drugs for their smell and colour, but care not for them as anodynes or purges, and are not aware of those properties? Whereas those who have more proficiency can derive benefit not from discourses only, but from sights and actions, and cull what is good and useful, as is recorded of Æschylus and other similar kind of men. As to Æschylus, when he was watching a contest in boxing at the Isthmus, and the whole theatre cried out upon one of the boxers being beaten, he nudged with his elbow Ion of Chios, and said, "Do you observe the power of training? The beaten man holds his peace, while the spectators cry out." And Brasidas having caught hold of a mouse among some figs, being bitten by it let it go, and said to himself, "Hercules, there is no creature so small or weak that it will not fight for its life!"

And Diogenes, seeing a lad drinking water out of the palm of his hand, threw away the cup which he kept in his wallet. So much does attention and assiduous practice make people perceptive and receptive of what contributes to virtue from any source. And this is the case still more with those who mix discourses with actions, who not only, to use the language of Thucydides, "exercise themselves in the presence of danger," but also in regard to pleasures and strifes, and judgements, and advocateships, and magistrateships make a display of their opinions, or rather form their opinions by their practice. For we can no more think those philosophers who are ever learning and busy and investigating what they have got from philosophy, and then straightway publish it in the market-place or in the haunt of young men, or at a royal supper-party, any more than we give the name of physicians to those who sell drugs and mixtures. Nay rather such a sophist differs very little at all from the bird described in Homer,  offering his scholars like it whatever he has got, and as it feeds its callow young from its own mouth, "though it goes ill with itself," so he gets no advantage or food from what he has got for himself.

§ ix. We must therefore see to it that our discourse be serviceable to ourselves, and that it may not appear to others to be vain-glorious or ambitious, and we must show that we are as willing to listen as to teach, and especially must we lay aside all disputatiousness and love of strife in controversy, and cease bandying fierce words with one another as if we were contending with one another at boxing, and leave off rejoicing more in smiting and knocking down one another than in learning and teaching. For in such cases moderation and mildness, and to commence arguing without quarrelsomeness and to finish without getting into a rage, and neither to be insolent if you come off best in the argument, nor dejected if you come off worst, is a sufficient sign of progress in virtue. Aristippus was an excellent example of this, when overcome in argument by the sophistry of a man, who had plenty of assurance, but was generally speaking mad or half-witted. Observing that he was in great joy and very puffed up at his victory, he said, "I who have been vanquished in the argument shall have a better night's rest than my victor."

 

We can also test ourselves in regard to public speaking, if we are not timid and do not shrink from speaking when a large audience has unexpectedly been got together, nor dejected when we have only a small one to harangue to, and if we do not, when we have to speak to the people or before some magistrate, miss the opportunity through want of proper preparation; for these things are recorded both of Demosthenes and Alcibiades. As for Alcibiades, though he possessed a most excellent understanding, yet from want of confidence in speaking he often broke down, and in trying to recall a word or thought that slipped his memory had to stop short. And Homer did not deny that his first line was unmetrical,  though he had sufficient confidence to follow it up by so many other lines, so great was his genius. Much more then ought those who aim at virtue and what is noble to lose no opportunity of public speaking, paying very little attention to either uproar or applause at their speeches.

§ x. And not,,,,,,,,,,,,

                                                                                 x x x x x x x x x x


The full text of Plutarch's essay and others in his Moralia is available as follows:

Available free in English on Amazon (Kindle):

 https://www.amazon.com/Plutarchs-Morals-Plutarch-ebook/dp/B0082W83DO

(Full Plutarch essay available for free and easily printable from:

https://jameslongerstuff.blogspot.com/2016/06/this-down-to-earth-essay-by-plutarch.html

Also, there is a more contemporary translation by Robin Waterfield at:

https://www.amazon.com/Essays-Penguin-Classics-Plutarch/dp/0140445641

 

For Greek readers - This essay is available in ancient+modern Greek from the delightful Kaktos bookshop – (temporarily selling online rather than in Panepistimeo) – see Book 2 of Plutarch’s Ethics at:

https://www.kaktos.gr/el/authors/archaioi-suggrafeis/ploutarchos/ploutarhos-ithika-2-978-960-352-346-8.html

(Pages 171 to 221 …. odd pages only - is the essay I will be talking about in ‘modern’ Greek. The ‘even’ pages are Ancient Greek.)



 

Friday, 15 May 2020

Text Extracts - for Meetup Group Members on Plotinus and Beauty (Ennead 1,vi)


PLOTINUS – ON BEAUTY – Ennead I, vi

(Trans. A H Armstrong)

‘Extracts’ only for Online Meetup Talk - Monday 15th June 2020 - 8.00 pm Greek Time) 

(The full 7 page piece can be found at:


Extract A – Trying to Define ‘Beauty’ In Its Broadest and Metaphysical Sense

Ch 1

Beauty is mostly in sight, but it is to be found too in things we hear, in combinations of words and also in music, and in all music [not only in songs]; for tunes and rhythms are certainly beautiful: and for those who are advancing upwards from sense perception ways of life and actions and characters and intellectual activities are beautiful, and there is the beauty of virtue. If there is any beauty prior to these, this discussion will reveal it.

Very well then, what is it which makes us imagine that bodies are beautiful and attracts our hearing to sounds because of their beauty? And how are all the things which depend on soul beautiful? Are they all made beautiful by one and the same beauty or is there one beautifulness in bodies and a different one in other things? And what are they, or what is it? Some things, bodies for instance, are not beautiful from the nature of the objects themselves, but by participation, others are beauties themselves, like the nature of virtue. The same bodies appear sometimes beautiful, sometimes not beautiful, so that their being bodies is one thing, their being beautiful another. What is this principle, then, which is present in bodies? We ought to consider this first. What is it that attracts the gaze of those who look at something, and turns and draws them to it and makes them enjoy the sight? If we find this perhaps we can use it as a stepping-stone and get a sight of the rest.

Nearly everyone says that it is good proportion of the parts to each other and to the whole, with the addition of good colour, which produces visible beauty, and that with the objects of sight and generally with everything else, being beautiful is being well-proportioned and measured. On this theory nothing single and simple but only a composite thing will have any beauty. It will be the whole which is beautiful, and the parts will not have the property of beauty by themselves, but will contribute to the beauty of the whole. But if the whole is beautiful the parts must be beautiful too; a beautiful whole can certainly not be composed of ugly parts; all the parts must have beauty. For these people, too, beautiful colours, and the light of the sun as well, since they are simple and do not derive their beautifulness from good proportion, will be excluded from beauty. And how do they think gold manages to be beautiful? And what makes lightning in the night and stars beautiful to see? And in sounds in the same way the simple will be banished, though often in a composition which is beautiful as a whole each separate sound is beautiful.

Ch 2………

And when, though the same good proportion is there all the time, the same face sometimes appears beautiful and sometimes does not, surely we must say that being beautiful is something else over and above good proportion, and good proportion is beautiful because of something else? But if when these people pass on to ways of life and beautiful expressions of thought they allege good proportion as the cause of beauty in these too, what can be meant by good proportion in beautiful ways of life or laws or studies or branches of knowledge? How can speculations be well-proportioned in relation to each other? If it is because they agree, there can be concord and agreement between bad ideas. The statement that "righteousness is a fine sort of silliness" agrees with and is in tune with the saying that "morality is stupidity"; the two fit perfectly. Again, every sort of virtue is a beauty of the soul, a truer beauty than those mentioned before; but how is virtue well proportioned? Not like magnitudes or a number. We grant that the soul has several parts, but what is the formula for the composition or mixture in the soul of parts or speculations ? And what [on this theory], will the beauty of the intellect alone by itself be ?

So let us go back to the beginning and state what the primary beauty in bodies really is. It is something which we become aware of even at the first glance; the soul speaks of it as if it understood it, recognises and welcomes it and as it were adapts itself to it. But when it encounters the ugly it shrinks back and rejects it and turns away from it and is out of tune and alienated from it. Our explanation of this is that the soul, since it is by nature what it is and is related to the higher kind of reality in the realm of being, when it sees something akin to it or a trace of its kindred reality, is delighted and thrilled and returns to itself and remembers itself and its own possessions.

What likeness, then, is there between beautiful things here and There? If there is a likeness, let us agree that they are alike. But how are both the things in that world and the things in this beautiful? We maintain that the things in this world are beautiful by participating in form; for every shapeless thing which is naturally capable of receiving shape and form is ugly and outside the divine formative power as long as it has no share in formative power and form. This is absolute ugliness. But a thing is also ugly when it is not completely dominated by shape and formative power, since its matter has not submitted to be completely shaped according to the form.
Ch 3

The form, then, approaches and composes that which is to come into being from many parts into a single ordered whole; it brings it into a completed unity and makes it one by agreement of its parts; for since it is one itself, that which is shaped by it must also be one as far as a thing can be which is composed of many parts. So beauty rests upon the material thing when it has been brought into unity, and gives itself to parts and wholes alike. When it comes upon something that is one and composed of like parts it gives the same gift to the whole; as sometimes art gives beauty to a whole house with its parts, and sometimes a nature gives beauty to a single stone. So then the beautiful body comes into being by sharing in a formative power which comes from the divine forms………..


Extract B – The Importance of Virtue and Living Correctly

Ch 4

…………………….  Then we must ask the lovers of that which is outside sense "What do you feel about beautiful ways of life, as we call them, and beautiful habits and well-ordered characters and in general about virtuous activities and dispositions and the beauty of Souls? What do you feel when you see your own inward beauty? How are you stirred to wild exultation, and long to be with yourselves, gathering your selves together away from your bodies?" For this is what true lovers feel. But what is it which makes them feel like this? Not shape or colour or any size, but soul, without colour itself and possessing a moral order without colour and possessing all the other light of the virtues; you feel like this when you see, in yourself or in someone else, greatness of soul, a righteous life, a pure morality, courage with its noble look,' and dignity and modesty advancing in a fearless, calm and unperturbed disposition, and the godlike light of intellect shining upon all this. We love and delight in these qualities, but why do we call them beautiful? They exist and appear to us and lie who sees them cannot possibly say anything else except that they are what really exists. What does "really exists" mean? That they exist as beauties. But the argument still requires us to explain why real beings make the soul lovable. What is this kind of glorifying light on all the virtues? Would you like to take the opposites, the uglinesses in soul, and contrast them with the beauties? Perhaps a consideration of what ugliness is and why it appears so will help us to find what we are looking for.

Ch 5

Suppose, then, an ugly soul, dissolute and unjust, full of all lusts, and all disturbance, sunk in fears by its cowardice and jealousies by its pettiness, thinking mean and mortal thoughts as far as it thinks at all, altogether distorted, loving impure pleasures, living a life which consists of bodily sensations and finding delight in its ugliness. Shall we not say that its ugliness came to it as a "beauty" brought in from outside, injuring it and making it impure and "mixed with a great deal of evil," with its life and perceptions no longer pure, but by the admixture of evil living a dim life and diluted with a great deal of death, no longer seeing what a soul ought to see, no longer left in peace in itself because it keeps on being dragged out, and down, and to the dark? Impure, I think, and dragged in every direction towards the objects of sense, with a great deal of bodily stuff mixed into it, consorting much with matter and receiving a form other than its own it has changed by a mixture which makes it worse; just as if anyone gets into mud or filth he does not show any more the beauty which he had: what is seen is what he wiped off on himself from the mud and filth; his ugliness has come from an addition of alien matter, and his business, if he is to be beautiful again, is to wash and clean himself and so be again what he was before. So we shall be right in saying that the soul becomes ugly by mixture and dilution and inclination towards the body and matter.

This is the soul's ugliness, not being pure and unmixed, like gold, but full of earthiness; if anyone takes the earthy stuff away the gold is left, and is beautiful, when it is singled out from other things and is alone by itself. In the same way the soul too, when it is separated from the lusts which it has through the body with which it consorted too much, and freed from its other affections, purged of what it gets from being embodied, when it abides alone has put away all the ugliness which came from the other nature….


Extract C – How to Make Ourselves More Beautiful

Ch 7

So we must ascend again to the good, which every soul desires. Any-one who has seen it knows what I mean when I say that it is beautiful. It is desired as good, and the desire for it is directed to good, and the attainment of it is for those who go up to the higher world and are converted and strip off what we put on in our descent; (just as for those who go up to the celebrations of sacred rites there are purifications, and strippings off of the clothes they wore before, and going up naked) until, passing in the ascent all that is alien to the God, one sees with one's self alone That alone, simple, single and pure,' from which all depends and to which all look and are and live and think : for it is cause of life and mind and being. If anyone sees it, what passion will he feel, what longing in his desire to be united with it, what a shock of delight!

The man who has not seen it may desire it as good, but he who has seen it glories in its beauty and is full of wonder and delight, enduring a shock which causes no hurt, loving with true passion and piercing longing; he laughs at all other loves and despises what he thought beautiful before; it is like the experience of those who have met appearances of gods or spirits and do not any more appreciate as they did the beauty of other bodies. "What then are we to think, if anyone contemplates the absolute beauty which exists pure by itself, uncontaminated by flesh or body, not in earth or heaven, that it may keep its purity?" All these other things are external additions and mixtures and not primary, but derived from it……………….


(Extract C part 2 - ‘practically’)
Ch 8

….. But how shall we find the way? What method can we devise? How can one see the "inconceivable beauty " which stays within in the holy sanctuary and does not come out where the profane may see it? Let him who can, follow and come within, and leave outside the sight of his eyes and not turn back to the bodily splendours which he saw before. When he sees the beauty in bodies he must not run after them; we must know that they are images, traces, shadows, and hurry away to that which they image. For if a man runs to the image and wants to seize it as if it was the reality (like a beautiful reflection playing on the water, which some story somewhere, I think, said riddlingly a man wanted to catch and sank down into the stream and disappeared) then this man who clings to beautiful bodies and will not let them go, will, like the man in the story, but in soul, not in body, sink down into the dark depths where intellect has no delight, and stay blind in Hades, consorting with shadows there and here.

This would be truer advice "Let us fly to our dear country." What then is our way of escape, and how are we to find it? We shall put out to sea, as Odysseus did, from the witch Circe or Calypso as the poet says, I think with a hidden meaning, and was not content to stay though he had delights of the eyes and lived among much beauty of sense.' Our country from which we came is there, our Father is there. How shall we travel to it, where is our way of escape? We cannot get there on foot; for our feet only carry us everywhere in this world, from one country to another. You must not get ready a carriage, either, or a boat. Let all these things go, and do not look. Shut your eyes, and change to and wake another way of seeing, which everyone has but few use.

And what does this inner sight see? When it is just awakened it is not at all able to look at the brilliance before it. So that the soul must be trained, first of all to look at beautiful ways of life : then at beautiful works, not those which the arts produce, but the works of men who have a name for goodness : then look at the souls of the people who produce the beautiful works. How then can you see the sort of beauty a good soul has?
Ch 9
Go back into yourself and look; and if you do not yet see yourself beautiful, then, just as someone making a statue which has to be beautiful cuts away here and polishes there and makes one part smooth and clears another till he has given his statue a beautiful face, so you too must cut away excess and straighten the crooked and clear the dark and make it bright, and never stop "working on your statue" till the divine glory of virtue shines out on you, till you see " self-mastery enthroned upon its holy seat." If you have become this, and see it, and are at home with yourself in purity, with nothing hindering you from becoming in this way one, with no inward mixture of anything else, but wholly yourself, nothing but true light, not measured by dimensions, or bounded by shape into littleness, or expanded to size by unboundedness, but everywhere unmeasured, because greater than all measure and superior to all quantity; when you see that you have become this, then you have become sight; you can trust yourself then; you have already ascended and need no one to show you; concentrate your gaze and see. This alone is the eye that sees the great beauty.

But if anyone comes to the sight bleary eyed with wickedness, and unpurified, or weak and by his cowardice unable to look at what is very bright, he sees nothing, even if someone shows him what is there and possible to see. For one must come to the sight with a seeing power made akin and like to what is seen. No eye ever saw the sun without becoming sun-like,' nor can a soul see beauty without becoming beautiful. You must become first all godlike and all beautiful if you intend to see God and beauty.

First the soul will come in its ascent to intellect and there will know the Forms, all beautiful, and will affirm that these, the Ideas, are beauty; for all things are beautiful by these, by the products and essence of intellect. That which is beyond this we call the nature of the Good, which holds beauty as a screen before it. So in a loose and general way of speaking the Good is the primary beauty; but if one distinguishes the intelligibles [from the Good] one will say that the place of the Forms is the intelligible beauty, but the Good is That which is beyond, the "spring and origin" of beauty; or one will place the Good and the primal beauty on the same level: in any case, however, beauty is in the intelligible world.


Thursday, 23 April 2020

"ONLINE TALK" - The Nuts and Bolts of Plato - An informal talk by James




ONLINE TALK - Monday 27th April 2020 – 7.00 pm “Greek Time”. 
(Join us from anywhere in the world. Check out the time of the talk where you are here:   https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ )


The talk will last about 35 minutes with some time afterwards for questions and discussion.

Note A: Quick notes on how to join this “online” meetup talk are at the bottom of these details. No one needs to see or hear you if you do not wish. You can just join and listen if you want.

Note B: Some meetup member will have already heard this talk in Athens last summer 2019. We will refresh some of the previous points and introduce some new ideas as well. (This talk helps prepare the ground for a new talk soon on Plotinus and his treaty on ‘Beauty’. (Ennead I, vi )

What this talk 'Nuts and Bolts of Plato' is about:

The talk will appeal to people who already know something about Socrates and Plato and want to know a little bit more. That said, no previous study of philosophy is needed to join and enjoy this talk. I will look at three central themes in Plato's writings: Metaphysics (i.e. the big stuff which is hard to prove scientifically – including Plato’s theory about Ideas and Forms); Psyche and the Soul in Plato (assuming we have one at all that is…); and a quick look at Plato’s ethics (i.e. the moral values and beliefs we have as individuals, or as collective communities.) This talk will help prepare us for a new talk coming soon on Plotinus and ‘Beauty’. (Ennead I, vi )

COST: In keeping with the Socratic tradition, James' meetup talks are offered free of charge for people who attend. However, voluntary contributions are accepted to help out with the ongoing expenses of putting on talks (usually face to face – but currently online) and other philosophical activities. (There is no pressure to contribute.) Contributions can be made via Paypal to: jamesdelphi2000@gmail.com

How to join this ‘online’ talk:



Wednesday, 16 October 2019

Text for Meetup Group Members For the Talk on Plato's Cave

 



Extracts of Plato’s Cave:

(Plato’s Book Republic – 514a to 517a)

Translated by:  Waterfield, Robin. Republic (Oxford World's Classics) OUP Oxford. Kindle Edition.

(Socrates is recounting a discussion he has had previously with his friend Glaucon - regarding the education of the young - and the future leaders of the Athenian state.)

The Prisoner Ascends from the Cave   (Plato’s Republic – 514a to 517a)

514a ‘Next,’ I said, ‘here’s a situation which you can use as an analogy for the human condition—for our education or lack of it. Imagine people living in a cavernous cell down under the ground; at the far end of the cave, a long way off, there’s an entrance open to the outside world. They’ve been there since childhood, with their legs and necks tied up in a way which keeps them in one place and allows them to look only straight ahead, but not to turn their heads. There’s firelight burning a long way further up the cave behind them, and up the slope between the fire and the prisoners there’s a road, beside which you should imagine a low wall has been built—like the partition which conjurors place between themselves and their audience and above which they show their tricks.’ b

‘All right,’ he said.

‘Imagine also that there are people on the other side of this wall who are carrying all sorts of artefacts. These artefacts, human statuettes, and animal models carved in stone and wood and all kinds of materials stick out over the wall; and as you’d expect, some of the people talk as they carry these objects along, while others are silent.’ c

This is a strange picture you’re painting,’ he said, ‘with strange prisoners.’    515a   

‘They’re no different from us,’ I said. ‘I mean, in the first place, do you think they’d see anything of themselves and one another except the shadows cast by the fire on to the cave wall directly opposite them?’

‘Of course not,’ he said.

 ‘They’re forced to spend their lives without moving their heads.’ ‘And what about the objects which were being carried along? Won’t they only see their shadows as well?’ b

‘Naturally.’

 ‘Now, suppose they were able to talk to one another: don’t you think they’d assume that their words applied to what they saw passing by in front of them?

‘They couldn’t think otherwise.’

“And what if sound echoed off the prison wall opposite them? When any of the passers-by spoke, don’t you think they’d be bound to assume that the sound came from a passing shadow?’

‘I’m absolutely certain of it,’ he said.

‘All in all, then,’ I said, ‘the shadows of artefacts would constitute the only reality people in this situation would recognize.’ c

‘That’s absolutely inevitable,’ he agreed. d

‘What do you think would happen, then,’ I asked, ‘if they were set free from their bonds and cured of their inanity? What would it be like if they found that happening to them? Imagine that one of them has been set free and is suddenly made to stand up, to turn his head and walk, and to look towards the firelight. It hurts him to do all this and he’s too dazzled to be capable of making out the objects whose shadows he’d formerly been looking at. And suppose someone tells him that what he’s been seeing all this time has no substance, and that he’s now closer to reality and is seeing more accurately, because of the greater reality of the things in front of his eyes—what do you imagine his reaction would be? And what do you think he’d say if he were shown any of the passing objects and had to respond to being asked what it was? Don’t you think he’d be bewildered and would think that there was more reality in what he’d been seeing before than in what he was being shown now?’

‘Far more,’ he said.

‘And if he were forced to look at the actual firelight, don’t you think it would hurt his eyes? Don’t you think he’d turn away and run back to the things he could make out, and would take the truth of the matter to be that these things are clearer than what he was being shown?’ e

‘Yes,’ he agreed.

‘And imagine him being dragged forcibly away from there up the rough, steep slope,’ I went on, ‘without being released until he’s been pulled out into the sunlight. Wouldn’t this treatment cause him pain and distress? And once he’s reached the sunlight, he wouldn’t be able to see a single one of the things which are currently taken to be real, would he, because his eyes would be overwhelmed by the sun’s beams?’

‘No, he wouldn’t,’ he answered, ‘not straight away.’516a

‘He wouldn’t be able to see things up on the surface of the earth, I suppose, until he’d got used to his situation. At first, it would be shadows that he could most easily make out, then he’d move on to the reflections of people and so on in water, and later he’d be able to see the actual things themselves. Next, he’d feast his eyes on the heavenly bodies and the heavens themselves, which would be easier at night: he’d look at the light of the stars and the moon, rather than at the sun and sunlight during the daytime.’ b

‘Of course.’

And imagine, he’d be able to discern and feast his eyes on the sun—not the displaced image of the sun in water or elsewhere, but the sun on its own, in its proper place.’

‘Yes, he’d inevitably come to that,’ he said.

‘After that, he’d start to think about the sun and he’d deduce that it is the source of the seasons and the yearly cycle, that the whole of the visible realm is its domain, and that in a sense everything which he and his peers used to see is its responsibility.’ c

‘Yes, that would obviously be the next point he’d come to,’ he agreed.

‘Now, if he recalled the cell where he’d originally lived and what passed for knowledge there and his former fellow prisoners, don’t you think he’d feel happy about his own altered circumstances, and sorry for them?’

‘Definitely.’

‘Suppose that the prisoners used to assign prestige and credit to one another, in the sense that they rewarded speed at recognizing the shadows as they passed, and the ability to remember which ones normally come earlier and later and at the same time as which other ones, and expertise at using this as a basis for guessing which ones would arrive next. Do you think our former prisoner would covet these honours and would envy the people who had status and power there, or would he much prefer, as Homer describes it, “being a slave labouring for someone else—someone without property”, and would put up with anything at all, in fact, rather than share their beliefs and their life?’ d

‘Yes, I think he’d go through anything rather than live that way,’ he said. e

‘Here’s something else I’d like your opinion about,’ I said. ‘If he went back underground and sat down again in the same spot, wouldn’t the sudden transition from the sunlight mean that his eyes would be overwhelmed by darkness?’

 ‘Certainly,’ he replied.

‘Now, the process of adjustment would be quite long this time, and suppose that before his eyes had settled down and while he wasn’t seeing well, he had once again to compete against those same old prisoners at identifying those shadows. Wouldn’t he make a fool of himself? Wouldn’t they say that he’d come back from his upward journey with his eyes ruined, and that it wasn’t even worth trying to go up there? And wouldn’t they—if they could—grab hold of anyone who tried to set them free and take them up there, and kill him?’

‘They certainly would,’ he said.   517a


The Escaped Prisoner Must Go Down Into The Darkness Again To Help The Others

(Republic-519c/d to 520e):

 

‘Our job as founders, then,’ I said, ‘is to make sure that the best people come to that fundamental field of study (as we called it earlier): we must have them make the ascent we’ve been talking about and see goodness. And afterwards, once they’ve been up there and had a good look, we mustn’t let them get away with what they do at the moment.’  e

‘Which is what?’

 ‘Staying there,’ I replied, ‘and refusing to come back down again to those prisoners, to share their work and their rewards, no matter whether those rewards are trivial or significant.’

‘But in that case,’ he protested, ‘we’ll be wronging them: we’ll be making the quality of their lives worse and denying them the better life they could be living, won’t we?’

‘You’re again forgetting, my friend,’ I said, ‘that the point of legislation is not to make one section of a community better off than the rest, but to engineer this for the community as a whole. Legislators should persuade or compel the members of a community to mesh together, should make every individual share with his fellows the benefit which he is capable of contributing to the common welfare, and should ensure that the community does contain people with this capacity; and the purpose of all this is not for legislators to leave people to choose their own directions, but for them to use people to bind the community together.’ e

520a

‘Yes, you’re right,’ he said. ‘I was forgetting.’ b

 ‘I think you’ll also find, Glaucon,’ I said, ‘that we won’t be wronging any philosophers who arise in our community. Our remarks, as we force them to take care of their fellow citizens and be their guardians, will be perfectly fair. We’ll tell them that it’s reasonable for philosophers who happen to occur in other communities not to share the work of those communities, since their occurrence was spontaneous, rather than planned by the political system of any of the communities in question, and it’s fair for anything which arises spontaneously and doesn’t owe its nurture to anyone or anything to have no interest in repaying anyone for having provided its nourishment. “We’ve bred you, however,” we’ll say, “to act, as it were, as the hive’s leaders and kings, for your own good as well as that of the rest of the community…..

You’ve received a better and more thorough education than those other philosophers, and you’re more capable of playing a part in both spheres. So each of you must, when your time comes, descend to where the rest of the community lives, and get used to looking at things in the dark. The point is that once you become acclimatized, you’ll see infinitely better than the others there; your experience of genuine right, morality, and goodness will enable you to identify every one of the images and recognize what it is an image of.

And then the administration of our community—ours as well as yours—will be in the hands of people who are awake, as distinct from the norm nowadays of communities being governed by people who shadow-box and fall out with one another in their dreams over who should rule, as if that were a highly desirable thing to do. No, the truth of the matter is this: the less keen the would-be rulers of a community are to rule, the better and less divided the administration of that community is bound to be, but where the rulers feel the opposite, the administration is bound to be the opposite.”’ c d

end

Friday, 16 December 2011

Plato In A Nutshell


PLATO IN A NUTSHELL

In this essay Tim Addey suggests that: 'Of all the philosophers whose writings have survived more or less intact, Plato is, I think, the most difficult to feel one has him and his meaning properly netted and secure.'   He then proceeds to give an excellent overview (as far as is posible with Socrates and Plato!) for experienced general readers or students of Plato - covering the main areas of metaphysics, psychology, and ethics. 

This essay is a bit more than a "bite size chunk" and therefore it is hosted at:


(This website supports the "Socrates 4 Today" blogg (which seeks to provide "bite size chunks" only) by hosting longer pieces on the subject.)





Live Links List for Paperback Readers of ‘Life Choices (New Edition 2019) - Important Tips from Socrates, Plato and Aristotle

Links:

1. The Socrates 4 Today Blog - With articles / information / further links to podcasts, and a ‘live version’ of this list of links for you to click.

www.socrates4today.blogspot.gr

2. Informal Talks / Walks in Athens with James

www.meetup.com/Athens-Philosophy-Talks-Walks-and-Discussions-with-James

3. New Acropolis Museum, Athens

www.theacropolismuseum.gr/en

4. Marinus’ Affectionate Essay on the Life of His Teacher Proclus – aka ‘On Happiness’

www.jameslongerstuff.blogspot.gr

5. Delphi Archaeological Museum

www.e-delphi.gr

6. Disaster at the Clothing Factory in Samar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Savar_building_collapse

7. Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders)

www.doctorswithoutborders.org

8. Companions for that Long Voyage – Blogpost

http://jamesphilosophicalagora.blogspot.com/2011/05/companions-for-that-long-voyage-know.html

9. New Acropolis Philosophical Organisation. This is the link for the London group but they have groups all over the world.

www.newacropolisuk.org

10. The Prometheus Trust with various resources to download including: Hermeas’ Commentary on The Phaedrus

www.prometheustrust.co.uk/html/files_to_download.html

11. ‘Aristotle’ by Dr A E Taylor

http://store.doverpublications.com/0486202801.html

12. Diotima on Love – Extracts from Symposium:

www.socrates4today.blogspot.com/2015/10/diotima-on-love-extracts.html

13. Movie trailer for ‘The Big Short’ that describes some of the problems leading up to the 2008 global economic crisis:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWr8hbUkG9s

14. Practical Philosophy - Environment – Having the option at least to refill plastic waters bottles:

www.socrates4today.blogspot.com/2018/12/environment-water-bottles-refill-option.html

15. The Population and Sustainability Network (PSN) is the international programme of the Margaret Pyke Trust. (Registered UK Charity No: 1064672) PSN is a group led by volunteer London doctors from their own offices. All money donated to PSN goes to the intended purpose, unlike many ‘organisations’ with expensive staffs and offices. PSN works to advance the understanding of the relationships between population, health and sustainable development issues; and promotes integrated approaches to help solve these interconnected challenges. PSN also advocates the empowerment of women, family planning and sex education. I believe that future generations will be grateful that we ‘started’ to investigate the ideas of a ‘sustainable global population’ and ‘moderate and real sustainable living’ at the start of the 21stcentury – as population now rapidly approaches 7.5 billion people; many of whom will have greater expectations in terms of ‘stuff’ that they want than any previous generation since Socrates’ time. (Keep in mind that the upper estimate for the global population just 200 years ago was only 1.125 billion!)

http://populationandsustainability.org

16. PRAXSIS is an independent Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) whose main goal is the design, application and implementation of humanitarian programs and medical interventions in Athens and other parts of Greece. It is inspiring to see their small fleet of ambulances parked on street corners, largely staffed by young volunteers, providing basic medical care and support for those most in need.

www.praksis.gr/en/about-praksis

Life Choices: Some Recommended Further Reading:

1. ‘Aristotle’ by Dr A. E. Taylor for an excellent and succinct overview of Aristotle’s main areas of study and writing. Alfred Edward Taylor (1869 – 1945) was a fellow of the British Academy (1911) and president of the Aristotelian Society from 1928 to 1929. At Oxford he was made an honorary fellow of New College in 1931.

2. Plato’s Book The Symposium(The Drinking Party) which concerns a number of speakers at a party each giving a talk on the subject of love. Socrates gives one of these speeches which includes within it the wise words of Diotima, a mysterious older woman who instructs Socrates in his youth about love. Diotima also describes a ‘philosophical’ progression in love; which is relevant to the ‘path of the philosopher’. There is an extract available on the Socrates 4 Today Blog (See links list.

3. Plutarch (46 to 120 CE – and not the latter Neo Platonist ‘Plutarch of Athens’) wrote two works still extant, the well-known Lives, and the lesser known Moraliaconsisting of 26 easily read, informative, succinct and entertaining essays on various aspects of ordinary life. The Moralia is very recommended for those seeking to be ‘real’ philosophers. For example, one of these essays is simply titled: ‘How one may be aware of one's progress in virtue’. This amusing essay is full of sensible down to earth tips for young travellers, new philosophers, and older searchers – since one’s progress in virtue is synonymous with one’s progress in ‘real’ philosophy. You may wish to download this book of essays from Amazon at: www.amazon.com/dp/B0082W83DOWhether you read the book or not, remember Plutarch’s important tip: ‘’Furthermore, take care, in reading the writings of philosophers or hearing their speeches that you do not attend to words more than things, nor get attracted more by what is difficult and curious than by what is serviceable and solid and useful.’There is another essay which suggests that friendships do not just have to be defined as sexual or non-sexual – but there is a third way – the sacred.

4. Plotinus (204 to 270 CE) the ‘early’ Neo Platonist was an accomplished philosopher in his on right and often has many charming Platonic echoes in his writings. He is straightforward and understandable. For example, his Essay (Treatise) On the Beautifulfinishes with several useful practical tips on how to make our own lives and actions more beautiful. (www.amazon.com/Essay-Beautiful-Greek-Plotinus-ebook/dp/B0082UI87W )

5. Perhaps try the considerable and varied resources of: The Prometheus Trust. For example, you can download extracts from ‘Hermeas’ commentary on The Phaedrus’ if you want to go deeper into this particular Platonic dialogue. There are also a number of short articles and succinct essays available to download. (See links list.)

6. There is a blog Socrates 4 Today (see links list) where I try to provide important extracts and pieces for people exploring Socrates, Plato and Aristotle more – but with limited time to read longer books cover to cover.

7. The Emperor's New Mind: Concerning Computers, Minds, and the Laws of Physics by eminent mathematician and theoretical physicist Roger Penrose. (2016 Oxford Landmark Science) This is definitely a book for more mathematically minded readers as it discusses the limitations of algorithms (the things that basically make computers function) to perform certain tasks. Mr. Penrose therefore suggests Artificial Intelligence (A.I.) will never be able to match human intelligence on certain things, especially where intuition is required. He also states openly his belief in the ‘Platonic reality’ (of Ideas and Forms] of ‘some’ mathematical ideas, and gives his scientific reasoning for this. This open minded approach, spiced with regular intellectual humility throughout his book, is most refreshing from a scientist of such great stature and influence as Mr. Penrose. There is also a fascinating observation made that all computers of given standard can run the same software programs on them, and there is not much to distinguish between the individual ‘hardware’. This prompts us to consider whether it is the same with human bodies and brains which are also all pretty similar in structure.

Why not spend 2 or 3 days in Delphi …. instead of just taking a day trip from Athens? Delphi in ancient times was considered the centre of the known world and was the spiritual centre of Greece. This was the place on earth where the human being could be as close to the Gods as it was possible to get. Many people say that even today Delphi has very special and positive ‘vibes’ and energy; and that is why it is a good idea to spend a relaxing 2 or 3 days there rather than just a rushed and sweaty 2 or 3 hours there like most ‘day trippers’ do who come from Athens for the day.


For most day trippers the two main things to think about when they get to Delphi is where to get some lunch and what time the bus is leaving to go back to Athens. If you come to Delphi for 2 or 3 days – you have time to think about a whole different bunch of stuff and enjoy the spectacular natural environment here; and soak up the special positive vibes and energy of this small friendly town. For More Info Click: '3 Days In Delphi' ) or click on the image below:



I guess many philosophers like to walk in 'special' places like Delphi....