tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-74487652920438528712024-03-19T11:17:05.516+02:00Socrates 4 TodayInvestigating the ideas of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle to help us all make better and more informed LIFE CHOICES today.... (Philosophy Talks & Walks in Athens, Podcasts, Introductory Books on the Ideas of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-54830922040824922652023-03-14T21:07:00.011+02:002023-03-15T16:46:58.521+02:00Extracts from Plato's Republic - The Myth of the Cave<p><span style="font-family: verdana;"><i><b> For talk in Athens - Thursday 23rd March - 2023</b></i></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span style="line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><span style="font-size: large;">Extracts
of Plato’s Cave:</span><o:p style="font-size: 12pt;"></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">(Plato’s
Book Republic – 514a to 517a) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Translated
by:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Waterfield, Robin. Republic (Oxford
World's Classics) OUP Oxford. Kindle Edition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">The
Prisoner Ascends from the Cave<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">(<b>Plato’s Republic – 514a to 517a)<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">514a</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> ‘Next,’ I said, ‘here’s a situation which you
can use as an analogy for the human condition—for our education or lack of it.
Imagine people living in a cavernous cell down under the ground; at the far end
of the cave, a long way off, there’s an entrance open to the outside world.
They’ve been there since childhood, with their legs and necks tied up in a way
which keeps them in one place and allows them to look only straight ahead, but
not to turn their heads. There’s firelight burning a long way further up the
cave behind them, and up the slope between the fire and the prisoners there’s a
road, beside which you should imagine a low wall has been built—like the
partition which conjurors place between themselves and their audience and above
which they show their tricks.’ <b>B<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘All
right,’ he said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Imagine
also that there are people on the other side of this wall who are carrying all
sorts of artefacts. These artefacts, human statuettes, and animal models carved
in stone and wood and all kinds of materials stick out over the wall; and as
you’d expect, some of the people talk as they carry these objects along, while
others are silent.’ <b>c </b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">515a<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘This
is a strange picture you’re painting,’ he said, ‘with strange prisoners.’ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘They’re
no different from us,’ I said. ‘I mean, in the first place, do you think they’d
see anything of themselves and one another except the shadows cast by the fire
on to the cave wall directly opposite them?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Of
course not,’ he said. ‘They’re forced to spend their lives without moving their
heads.’ ‘And what about the objects which were being carried along? Won’t they
only see their shadows as well?<b>’ b<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Naturally.’
‘Now, suppose they were able to talk to one another: don’t you think they’d
assume that their words applied to what they saw passing by in front of them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘They
couldn’t think otherwise.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">“And
what if sound echoed off the prison wall opposite them? When any of the
passers-by spoke, don’t you think they’d be bound to assume that the sound came
from a passing shadow?’ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘I’m
absolutely certain of it,’ he said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘All
in all, then,’ I said, ‘the shadows of artefacts would constitute the only
reality people in this situation would recognize.’ <b>c </b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘That’s
absolutely inevitable,’ he agreed<b>. d <o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘What
do you think would happen, then,’ I asked, ‘if they were set free from their
bonds and cured of their inanity? What would it be like if they found that
happening to them? Imagine that one of them has been set free and is suddenly
made to stand up, to turn his head and walk, and to look towards the firelight.
It hurts him to do all this and he’s too dazzled to be capable of making out
the objects whose shadows he’d formerly been looking at. And suppose someone
tells him that what he’s been seeing all this time has no substance, and that
he’s now closer to reality and is seeing more accurately, because of the
greater reality of the things in front of his eyes—what do you imagine his
reaction would be? And what do you think he’d say if he were shown any of the
passing objects and had to respond to being asked what it was? Don’t you think
he’d be bewildered and would think that there was more reality in what he’d
been seeing before than in what he was being shown now?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Far
more,’ he said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘And
if he were forced to look at the actual firelight, don’t you think it would
hurt his eyes? Don’t you think he’d turn away and run back to the things he
could make out, and would take the truth of the matter to be that these things
are clearer than what he was being shown?’ <b>e</b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Yes,’
he agreed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘And
imagine him being dragged forcibly away from there up the rough, steep slope,’
I went on, ‘without being released until he’s been pulled out into the
sunlight. Wouldn’t this treatment cause him pain and distress? And once he’s
reached the sunlight, he wouldn’t be able to see a single one of the things
which are currently taken to be real, would he, because his eyes would be
overwhelmed by the sun’s beams?’ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">516a</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘No,
he wouldn’t,’ he answered, ‘not straight away.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘He
wouldn’t be able to see things up on the surface of the earth, I suppose, until
he’d got used to his situation. At first, it would be shadows that he could
most easily make out, then he’d move on to the reflections of people and so on
in water, and later he’d be able to see the actual things themselves. Next,
he’d feast his eyes on the heavenly bodies and the heavens themselves, which
would be easier at night: he’d look at the light of the stars and the moon,
rather than at the sun and sunlight during the daytime.’ <b>b</b> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Of
course.’ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘And
at last, I imagine, he’d be able to discern and feast his eyes on the sun—not
the displaced image of the sun in water or elsewhere, but the sun on its own,
in its proper place.’ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Yes,
he’d inevitably come to that,’ he said. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘After
that, he’d start to think about the sun and he’d deduce that it is the source
of the seasons and the yearly cycle, that the whole of the visible realm is its
domain, and that in a sense everything which he and his peers used to see is
its responsibility.<b>’ c</b> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Yes,
that would obviously be the next point he’d come to,’ he agreed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Now,
if he recalled the cell where he’d originally lived and what passed for
knowledge there and his former fellow prisoners, don’t you think he’d feel
happy about his own altered circumstances, and sorry for them?’ <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Definitely.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Suppose
that the prisoners used to assign prestige and credit to one another, in the
sense that they rewarded speed at recognizing the shadows as they passed, and
the ability to remember which ones normally come earlier and later and at the
same time as which other ones, and expertise at using this as a basis for
guessing which ones would arrive next. Do you think our former prisoner would
covet these honours and would envy the people who had status and power there,
or would he much prefer, as Homer describes it, “being a slave labouring for
someone else—someone without property”, and would put up with anything at all,
in fact, rather than share their beliefs and their life?’ <b>d </b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Yes,
I think he’d go through anything rather than live that way,’ he said. <b>e<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Here’s
something else I’d like your opinion about,’ I said. ‘If he went back
underground and sat down again in the same spot, wouldn’t the sudden transition
from the sunlight mean that his eyes would be overwhelmed by darkness?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>‘Certainly,’ he replied. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Now,
the process of adjustment would be quite long this time, and suppose that
before his eyes had settled down and while he wasn’t seeing well, he had once
again to compete against those same old prisoners at identifying those shadows.
Wouldn’t he make a fool of himself? Wouldn’t they say that he’d come back from
his upward journey with his eyes ruined, and that it wasn’t even worth trying
to go up there? And wouldn’t they—if they could—grab hold of anyone who tried
to set them free and take them up there, and kill him?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">517a<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘They
certainly would,’ he said.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><br /></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">The
Escaped Prisoner Must Go Down Into The Darkness Again To Help The Others<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span lang="EN" style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;">(Republic-519c/d to 520e):<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Our
job as founders, then,’ I said, ‘is to make sure that the best people come to
that fundamental field of study (as we called it earlier): we must have them
make the ascent we’ve been talking about and see goodness. And afterwards, once
they’ve been up there and had a good look, we mustn’t let them get away with
what they do at the moment.’<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><b>e<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Which
is what?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>‘Staying there,’ I replied, ‘and refusing to
come back down again to those prisoners, to share their work and their rewards,
no matter whether those rewards are trivial or significant.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘But
in that case,’ he protested, ‘we’ll be wronging them: we’ll be making the
quality of their lives worse and denying them the better life they could be
living, won’t we?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘You’re
again forgetting, my friend,’ I said, ‘that the point of legislation is not to
make one section of a community better off than the rest, but to engineer this
for the community as a whole. Legislators should persuade or compel the members
of a community to mesh together, should make every individual share with his
fellows the benefit which he is capable of contributing to the common welfare,
and should ensure that the community does contain people with this capacity;
and the purpose of all this is not for legislators to leave people to choose
their own directions, but for them to use people to bind the community
together.’ <b>e </b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">520a
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Yes,
you’re right,’ he said. ‘I was forgetting.<b>’ b<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>‘I think you’ll also find, Glaucon,’ I said,
‘that we won’t be wronging any philosophers who arise in our community. Our
remarks, as we force them to take care of their fellow citizens and be their
guardians, will be perfectly fair. We’ll tell them that it’s reasonable for
philosophers who happen to occur in other communities not to share the work of
those communities, since their occurrence was spontaneous, rather than planned
by the political system of any of the communities in question, and it’s fair
for anything which arises spontaneously and doesn’t owe its nurture to anyone
or anything to have no interest in repaying anyone for having provided its
nourishment. “We’ve bred you, however,” we’ll say, “to act, as it were, as the
hive’s leaders and kings, for your own good as well as that of the rest of the
community…..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">You’ve
received a better and more thorough education than those other philosophers,
and you’re more capable of playing a part in both spheres. So each of you must,
when your time comes, descend to where the rest of the community lives, and get
used to looking at things in the dark. The point is that once you become
acclimatized, you’ll see infinitely better than the others there; your
experience of genuine right, morality, and goodness will enable you to identify
every one of the images and recognize what it is an image of.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And then the administration of our
community—ours as well as yours—will be in the hands of people who are awake,
as distinct from the norm nowadays of communities being governed by people who
shadow-box and fall out with one another in their dreams over who should rule,
as if that were a highly desirable thing to do. No, the truth of the matter is
this: the less keen the would-be rulers of a community are to rule, the better
and less divided the administration of that community is bound to be, but where
the rulers feel the opposite, the administration is bound to be the opposite.”<b>’
c d<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-76124942171965738762021-08-22T18:36:00.000+03:002021-08-22T18:36:17.700+03:00Plutarch and the E of Delphi (Part 2)<p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="background: white; color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Plutarch and
the E of Delphi (Part 2)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">I
would like to conclude my look at Plutarch’s essay ‘The E of Delphi’ (pronounced
EI) by looking at the final pages of the essay which are given over to his
teacher AMMONIUS, the Platonist philosopher. (Remember we are referring to ‘Plutarch
of Chaeronea’ (circa 46 to 120 CE), a respected philosopher and writer
throughout Greece and Rome, who was a high-ranking priest here in Delphi before
the destruction of the Temple of Apollo some 300 years after his death. (Surely
he is a good place to look to begin to understand what Delphi was really all
about…..)</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;">May I
remind Greek members of the group that in my previous post there is a link to
Plutarch’s essay on this subject in ‘modern Greek’ for people to read easily.
In the meantime, here are a few of the things Ammonius says about the E at
Delphi, as recorded by Plutarch.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;">I will
be discussing Plutarch’s other 2 essays about Delphi (‘Why Oracles at Delphi
Are No Longer Given in Verse’, and</span><span style="color: #050505; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span><span style="color: #050505; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;">‘The Obsolescence
of Oracles’) in due course…..probably over a coffee with anyone who is
interested, since I feel the material is too sacred for discussion via social
media…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">[James’
selected Quotes – The E at Delphi - Part 2.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span></span><span style="background: white; color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Ammonius the teacher of Plutarch concludes the conversation
and gives his own deep opinions on the subject…… ]</span><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p> </o:p></span><span style="color: #050505; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;">The
Speakers:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">AMMONIUS,
the Platonist philosopher, Plutarch’s teacher.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">LAMPRIAS,
Plutarch’s brother.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">PLUTARCH.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">THEON,
a literary friend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">EUSTROPHUS,
an Athenian.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">NICANDER,
a priest of the temple.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><br /></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify;"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-color-alt: windowtext;">XVII. Ammonius, as one who himself gave Mathematics
no mean place in Philosophy, was pleased at the course the conversation was
taking, and said: ‘It is not worth our while to answer our young friends with
too absolute accuracy on these points; I will only observe that any one of the
numbers will provide not a few points for those who choose to sing its praises.
Why speak about the others? Apollo’s holy “Seven” will take up all one day
before we have exhausted its powers. Are we then to show the Seven Wise Men at
odds with common usage, and “the time which runs”, and to suppose that they
ousted the “Seven” from its pre-eminence before the God, and consecrated the
“Five” as perhaps more appropriate? ‘My own view is that the letter signifies
neither number, nor order, nor conjunction, nor any other omitted part of
speech; it is a complete and self-operating mode of addressing the God; the
word once spoken brings the speaker into apprehension of his power. The God, as
it were, addresses each of us, as he enters, with his “KNOW THYSELF”, which is
at least as good as “Hail”. We answer the God back with “EI” (Thou Art),
rendering to him the designation which is true and has no lie in it, and alone
belongs to him, and to no other, that of BEING.</span><span style="color: #050505; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘For we have, really, no part in real being;
all mortal nature is in a middle state between becoming and perishing, and
presents but an appearance, a faint unstable image, of itself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 36.0pt; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">“It is impossible
to go into the same river twice”,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">said Heraclitus; no more can you grasp mortal
being twice, so as to hold it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Hence becoming never ends in being, for the
process never leaves off, or is stayed. From seed it produces, in its constant
changes, an embryo, then an infant, then a child; in due order a boy, a young
man; then a man, an elderly man, an old man; it undoes the former becomings and
the age which has been, to make those which come after. yet we fear (how
absurdly!) a single death, we who have died so many deaths, and yet are dying.
For it is not only that, as Heraclitus would say, “death of fire is birth of air”,
and “death of air is birth of water”; the thing is much clearer in our own
selves. The man in his strength is destroyed when the old man comes into being,
the young man was destroyed for the man in his strength to be, so the boy for
the young man, the babe for the boy. He of yesterday has died unto him of
to-day; he of to-day is dying unto him of to-morrow.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">No one abides, no one is; we that come into
being are many, while matter is driven around, and then glides away, about some
one appearance and a common mould. Else how is it, if we remain the same, that
the things in which we find pleasure now are different from those of a former
time; that we love, hate, admire, and censure different things; that our words
are different and our feelings; that our look, our bodily form, our intellect
are not the same now as then?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Time is a thing which moves and takes the
fashion of moving matter, which ever flows or is a sort of leaky vessel which
holds destruction and becoming. Of time we use the words “afterwards”, “before”,
“shall be”, and “has been”, each on its face an avowal of not being. For, in
this question of being, to say of a thing which has not yet come into being, or
which has already ceased from being, that “it is”, is silly and absurd.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">All things are coming into being, or being
destroyed, even while we measure them by time. Hence it is not permissible,
even in speaking of that which is, to say that “it was”, or “it shall be”;
these all are inclinations, transitions, passages, for of permanent being there
is none in Nature. XX. ‘But the God IS, we are bound to assert, he is, with
reference to no time but to that age wherein is no movement, or time, or
duration; to which nothing is prior or subsequent; no future, no past, no
elder, no younger, which by one long “now” has made the “always” perfect. Only
with reference tot his that which really is, is; it has not come into being, it
is not yet to be, it did not begin, it will not cease. Thus then we ought to
hail him in worship, and thus to address him as “Thou Art”, aye, or in the very
words of some of the old people, “Ei Hen”, “Thou art one thing”. For the Divine
is not many things,…..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Therefore the first of the names of the God,
and the second, and the third. “Apollo” (Not-many) denies plurality and
excludes multitude. </span><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Ἴ</span><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">ητος means one and one only; Phoebus, we know,
is a word by which the ancients expressed that which is clean and pure,…..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Now The One is transparent and pure, pollution
comes by commixture of this with that, just as Homer, you remember, says of
ivory dyed red that it is stained, and dyers say of mingled pigments that they
are destroyed, and call the process “destruction”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">But now that we see them dreaming of the God
in the fairest of nightly visions, let us rise and encourage them to mount yet
higher, to contemplate him in a dream of the day, and to see his own being. Let
them pay honour also to the image of him and worship the principle of increase
which is about it; so far as what is of sense can lead to what is of mind, a
moving body to that which abides, it allows presentments and appearances of his
kind and blessed self to shine through after a fashion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">To my thinking the word “EI” is confronted
with this false view, and testifies to the God that THOU ART, meaning that no
shift or change has place in him, but that such things belong to some other
God, or rather to some Spirit set over Nature in its perishing and becoming,…..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Anyhow, the phrase “KNOW THYSELF” seems to
stand in a sort of antithesis to the letter “E”, and yet, again, to accord with
it. The letter is an appeal, a cry raised in awe and worship to the God, as
being throughout all eternity; the phrase is a reminder to mortal man of his
own nature and of his weakness.’</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><br /></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Source: Plutarch. Delphi Complete Works of
Plutarch. (Delphi Ancient Classics Book 13) . <o:p></o:p></span></p><br /><p></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-48896002231534274392021-08-14T17:31:00.002+03:002021-08-14T17:31:39.135+03:00Plutarch and the E of Delphi (Part 1)<p style="text-align: justify;"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><br /></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">I
would like to continue my comments on Plutarch - ‘Plutarch of Chaeronea’ (circa
46 to 120 CE), who was a respected philosopher and writer throughout Greece and
Rome, and was also a high-ranking priest here in Delphi before the destruction
of the Temple of Apollo some 300 years after his death. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">I
remind Greek members of the group that in my previous post there is a link to
Plutarch’s essay on this subject in ‘modern Greek’ for people to read easily.
In the meantime, here are a few of the things Plutarch writes about the E at
Delphi - pronounced EI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">The
Speakers:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">AMMONIUS,
the Platonist philosopher, Plutarch’s teacher.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">LAMPRIAS,
Plutarch’s brother.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">PLUTARCH.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">THEON,
a literary friend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">EUSTROPHUS,
an Athenian.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">NICANDER,
a priest of the temple.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">[James’
selected Quotes - Part 1]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">‘Well,
then, our kind Apollo, in the oracles which he gives his consultants, seems to
solve the problems of life and to find a remedy, while problems of the
intellect he actually suggests and propounds to the born love of wisdom in the
soul, thus implanting an appetite which leads to truth….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">…..
We may well guess that it was not by chance, or by lot, that, along among the
letters, it received pre-eminence in the God’s house, and took rank as a sacred
offering and a show object. No, the officials of the God in early times, when
they came to speculate, either saw in it a special and extraordinary virtue, or
found it a symbol for something else of serious importance, and so adopted it……<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">……
That the God is no less philosopher than he is prophet appeared to all to come
out directly from the exposition which Ammonius gives us of each of his names.
He is ‘Pythian’ (The Inquirer) to those who are beginning to learn and to
inquire; ‘Delian’ (The Clear One) and ‘Phanaean’ to those who are already
getting something clear and a glimmering of the truth; ‘Ismenian’ (The Knowing)
to those who possess the knowledge; ‘Leschenorian’ (God of Discourse) when they
are in active enjoyment of dialectical and philosophic intercourse. ‘Now
since,’ he continued, ‘Philosophy embraces inquiry, wonder, and doubt, it seems
natural that most of the things relating to the God should have been hidden
away in riddles, and should require some account of their purpose, and an
explanation of the cause. For instance, in the case of the undying fire, why
the only woods used here are pine for burning and laurel for fumigation; again,
why two Fates are here installed, whereas their number is everywhere else taken
as three;…..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">……Look
again at those inscriptions, KNOW THYSELF and NOTHING TOO MUCH; how many
philosophic inquiries have they provoked! What a multitude of arguments has
sprung up out of each, as from a seed! Not one of them I think is more fruitful
in this way than the subject of our present inquiry.’….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">…..
IV. Ammonius gave a quiet smile; he had a suspicion that Lamprias had been
giving us a view of his own, making up history and legend at discretion……
[James Note: A good general warning when we listen to some people or read their
books….]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">V.
‘No, the Delphic Officials’, said Nicander the priest, speaking for them,
‘believe that it is a vehicle, a form assumed by the petition addressed to the
God; it has a leading place in the questions of those who consult him, and
inquire, If they shall conquer; If they shall marry; If it is advisable to
sail; If to farm; If to travel. The God in his wisdom would bow out the
dialecticians when they think that nothing practical comes of the “If” part
with its clause attached; he admits as practical, in his sense of the word, all
questions so attached…..’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">……
Just so, when the God puts out ambiguous oracles, he is exalting and
establishing Dialectic, as essential to the right understanding of himself. You
will grant again, that in Dialectic this conjunctive particle has great force,
because it formulates the most logical of all sentences. This is certainly the
“conjunctive”, seeing that the other animals know the existence of things, but
man alone has been gifted by nature with the power of observing and discerning
their sequence. That “it is day” and “it is light” we may take it that wolves
and dogs and birds perceive. But “if it is day it is light”, is intelligible
only to man; he alone can apprehend antecedent and consequent, the enunciation
of each and their connexion, their mutual relation and difference, and it is in
these that all demonstration has its first and governing principle. Since then
Philosophy is concerned with truth, and the light of truth is demonstration,
and the principle of demonstration is the conjunctive proposition, the faculty
which includes and produces this was rightly consecrated by the wise men to
that God who is above all things a lover of truth……<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Also,
the God is a prophet, and prophetic art deals with that future which is to come
out of things present or things past. Nothing comes into being without a cause,
nothing is known beforehand without a reason.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Hence,
though it may perhaps seem a petty thing to say, I will not shrink from it; the
real tripod of truth is the logical process which assumes the relation of
consequent to antecedent, then introduces the fact, and so establishes the
conclusion. If the Pythian God really finds pleasure in music, and in the
voices of swans, and the tones of the lyre, what wonder is it that as a friend
to Dialectic, he should welcome and love that part of speech which he sees
philosophers use more, and more often, than any other.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">For
Aeschylus says: ‘In mingled cries the dithyramb should ring,……. With Dionysus
revelling, its King. ‘But Apollo has the Pæan, a set and sober music. Apollo is
ever ageless and young; Dionysus has many forms and many shapes as represented
in paintings and sculpture, which attribute to Apollo smoothness and order and
a gravity with no admixture, to Dionysus a blend of sport and sauciness with
seriousness and frenzy:…..’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">XVII.
Ammonius, as one who himself gave Mathematics no mean place in Philosophy, was
pleased at the course the conversation was taking, and said: ‘It is not worth
our while to answer our young friends with too absolute accuracy on these
points; I will only observe that any one of the numbers will provide not a few
points for those who choose to sing its praises. Why speak about the others?
Apollo’s holy “Seven” will take up all one day before we have exhausted its
powers. Are we then to show the Seven Wise Men at odds with common usage, and
“the time which runs”, and to suppose that they ousted the “Seven” from its
pre-eminence before the God, and consecrated the “Five” as perhaps more
appropriate? ‘My own view is that the letter signifies neither number, nor
order, nor conjunction, nor any other omitted part of speech;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">----------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">I
will conclude my comments on this text ‘The E at Delphi’ next time by giving an
outline of what Ammonius (the teacher of Plutarchos) thinks is the reason for
the E. We should note that Plutarch significantly leaves his teacher’s views
and comments to last to conclude his piece.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">James.<o:p></o:p></span></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-50916571810550247642021-07-04T15:32:00.002+03:002021-07-04T15:32:25.581+03:00Plutarch's 'Isis and Osiris' and some deeper philosophical wisdom.....<p> <span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">A few words about why I like Plutarch (Πλούταρχος) – and
some clues to the richness and wisdom one can find in his writings.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Firstly,</span></b><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"> let me say that I am talking
about the ‘real’ or ‘famous’ ’ Plutarch, well to my mind at least. He is usually
known as ‘Plutarch of Chaeronea’ (a city in central Greece) and lived around<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>46 CE and died around 120. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>(In other words, this is not the latter Plutarch
of Athens who lived around 350 – 430 CE and was one of the latter Neo Platonist
group of that time – a group that I personally have mixed feelings about…… but
that is something for another day.) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Plutarch was born into a wealthy and well connected family
and received the best possible education.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>He travelled to Asia minor and Egypt – and later made a series of visits
to Rome where he was given official recognition by the emperors Trajan and
Hadrian, which added to his fame. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">He writes in a popular / accessible and practical way…. You
will know what Plutarch was getting at after you read the one of his essays –
even if you do not agree with him about everything.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If you prefer reading this with specialist
vocabulary, supposed esoteric hidden meanings, and the discussion of very vague
abstract ideas opened to interpretation or esoteric deliberations - then I
think this Plutarch will not be to your taste.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">However, if like me - you are not put off by down to earth
and straightforward philosophical writing, I think it is fair to say Plutarch’s
essays contain a rich source of spiritual and philosophical guidance and
nourishment; along with several suggested pitfalls to avoid in a quest to lead
a more philosophical life. Keep in mind, he also held responsible positions here
in Delphi in the priesthoods there…and was very well respected here. When he
speaks about ‘certain’ spiritual things – albeit in a simple and
straightforward way - we should consider at least that he not only knows what
he is talking about – but has an understanding of these deeper things as well.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><a name="_Hlk18844120"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Personally,
I try to read some Plutarch every year or two at least…… to remind myself of
the wisdom within his writings about how to live, and what kinds of attitudes we
should have towards other people……</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">When I hear some modern commentators relegate Plutarch to
the side lines simply - because he uses down to earth and very understandable
language - I am not that impressed. After all, Socrates himself (who lived some
400 years before Plutarch ) warns us about just accepting ‘clever or
stylish<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>arguments’ over ideas that are
presented simply and in a straightforward manner. Socrates is very critical of
rhetoric (basically the art of persuasion and clever speech making) - if it is
in the wrong hands. By this Socrates means, if the speaker however elegant and
polished, does not really what they are talking about and just pretends they
do, or is deliberately trying to mislead is audience.…… as is often the case
with our political leaders, or people who perhaps are trying to persuade us to
buy things we don’t want, or do things that are not good for us.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Plutarch wrote two main works which have come
down to us today:</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">..... One was the more well know <i>Parallel Lives</i> of
outstanding Greek and Roman leaders – which deliberately and cleverly compares
two leaders at a time who may have different characters or outlooks on certain
matters; so the descriptions are very ‘philosophical’ as well, and not just
historical.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">The second lesser well know work (book) is conventionally
known as <i>The Moralia</i> which is a Latin translation of a Greek term for
‘Moral Pieces’ (ēthika), – which comprised of some 26 essays on various
subjects – not just moral subjects as we might suppose. (Incidentally,
Plutarch’s son, Lamprias, is attributed with compiling and editing his father’s
essays and papers into books after Plutarch’s death.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Within <i>The Moralia</i> Plutarch writes an essay
explaining <i>The E at Delphi</i>, and I will make a few comments about this
over the next week or two.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Greek members
of this group can read Plutarch’s Isis and Osiris, and about the E in Delphi from:<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><a href="https://www.kaktos.gr/el/authors/archaioi-suggrafeis/ploutarchos/ploutarhos-ithika-10-978-960-352-354-3.html">https://www.kaktos.gr/el/authors/archaioi-suggrafeis/ploutarchos/ploutarhos-ithika-10-978-960-352-354-3.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">However, let me finish this post by telling you some of the
more unusual things (but very straightforward and important things) Plutarch
says within his essay on the Gods Isis and Osiris.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><b>I feel these are importance quotes to
share with people who are on the philosophical path….<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Some Quotes from Plutarch’s essay on Isis and
Osiris</span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">(Plutarch is talking to a friend, Clea, in
Delphi)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">🔑All good things, my dear Clea, sensible men
must ask from the gods; and especially do we pray that from those mighty gods
we may, in our quest, gain a knowledge of themselves, so far as such a thing is
attainable by men. For we believe that there is nothing more important for man
to receive, or more ennobling for God of His grace to grant, than the truth. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑</span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">For the Deity is not blessed by reason of his
possession of gold and silver, nor strong because of thunder and lightning, but
through knowledge and intelligence.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑</span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Therefore, the effort to arrive at the Truth,
and especially the truth about the gods, is a longing for the divine. For the
search for truth requires for its study and investigation the consideration of
sacred subjects, and it is a work more hallowed than any form of holy living or
temple service; and, not least of all, it is well-pleasing to that goddess whom
you worship, a goddess exceptionally wise and a lover of wisdom, to whom, as
her name at least seems to indicate, knowledge and understanding are in the
highest degree appropriate. For Isis is a Greek word,…..</span></i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑.....</span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">for she is wise, and discloses the divine
mysteries to those who truly and justly have the name of “bearers of the sacred
vessels” and “wearers of the sacred robes.” These are they who within their own
soul, as though within a casket, bear the sacred writings about the gods clear
of all superstition and pedantry; and they cloak them with secrecy, thus giving
intimation, some dark and shadowy, some clear and bright, of their concepts
about the gods, intimations of the same sort as are clearly evidenced in the
wearing of the sacred garb. ……</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">It is a fact, Clea, that having a beard and
wearing a coarse cloak does not make philosophers, nor does dressing in linen
and shaving the hair make votaries of Isis; but the true votary of Isis is
he/she who has legitimately received what is set forth in the ceremonies
connected with these gods, and uses reason in investigating and in studying the
truth contained therein…<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">But for all this there is only one true reason,
which is to be found in the words of Plato: “for the Impure to touch the Pure
is contrary to divine ordinance.”<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>[Note:
This is particularly important for readers searching for the truth, the
beautiful, the good or the divine….]<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">In Saïs the statue of Athena, whom they believe
to be Isis, bore the inscription: “I am all that has been, and is, and shall
be, and my robe no mortal has yet uncovered.” Moreover, most people believe
that Amoun is the name given to Zeus in the land of the Egyptians, a name which
we, with a slight alteration, pronounce Ammon. But Manetho of Sebennytus
dthinks that the meaning “concealed” or “concealment” lies in this word.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">When they, therefore, address the supreme god,
whom they believe to be the same as the Universe, as if he were invisible and
concealed, and implore him to make himself visible and manifest to them, they
use the word “Amoun”; so great, then, was the circumspection of the Egyptians
in their wisdom touching all that had to do with the gods. 10 1 Witness to this
also are the wisest of the Greeks: Solon, Thales, Plato, Eudoxus, Pythagoras,
who came to Egypt and consorted with the priests; and in this number some would
include Lycurgus also.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">……and you must not think that any of these
tales actually happened in the manner in which they are related. The facts are
that they do not call the dog by the name Hermes as his proper name, but they
bring into association with the most astute of their gods that animal’s
watchfulness and wakefulness and wisdom,b since he distinguishes between what
is friendly and what is hostile by his knowledge of the one and his ignorance
of the other, as Plato remarks. Nor, again, do they believe that the sun rises
as a new-born babe from the lotus, but they portray the rising of the sun in
this manner to indicate allegorically the enkindling of the sun from the
waters.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">If, then, you listen to the stories about the
gods in this way, accepting them from those who interpret the story reverently
and philosophically, and if you always perform and observe the established
rites of worship, and believe that no sacrifice that you can offer, no deed
that you may do will be more likely to find favour with the gods than your
belief in their true nature, you may avoid superstition which is no less an
evil than atheism.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Moreover, Lysippus the sculptor was quite right
in his disapproval of the painter Apelles, because Apelles in his portrait of
Alexander had represented him with a thunderbolt in his hand, whereas he
himself had represented Alexander holding a spear, the glory of which no length
of years could ever dim, since it was truthful and was his by right. 25 1
Better, therefore, is the judgment of those who hold that the stories about
Typhon, Osiris, and Isis, are records of experiences of neither gods nor men,
but of demigods, ewhom Plato and Pythagoras and Xenocrates and Chrysippus,
following the lead of early writers on sacred subjects, allege to have been
stronger than men and, in their might, greatly surpassing our nature, yet not
possessing the divine quality unmixed and uncontaminated, but with a share also
in the nature of the soul and in the perceptive faculties of the body, and with
a susceptibility to pleasure and pain and to whatsoever other experience is
incident to these mutations, and is the source of much disquiet in some and of
less in others. For in demigods, as in men, there are divers degrees of virtue
and vice.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">The assumption, then, is that the demigods (or
daemons) have a complex and inconsistent nature and purpose; wherefore<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">…..That Osiris is identical with Dionysus who
could more fittingly know than yourself, Clea? For you are at the head of the
inspired maidens of Delphi, and have been consecrated by your father and mother
in the holy rites of Osiris. If, however, for the benefit of others it is
needful to adduce proofs of this identity, let us leave undisturbed what may
not be told, but the public ceremonies which the priests perform in the burial
of the Apis, when they convey his body on an improvised bier, do not in any way
come short of a Bacchic procession; for they fasten skins of fawns about
themselves, and carry Bacchic wands and indulge in shoutings and movements
exactly as do those who are under the spell of the Dionysiac ecstasies.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">The Egyptians, as has already been stated,
point out tombs of Osiris in many places, and the people of Delphi believe that
the remains of Dionysus rest with them close beside the oracle; and the Holy
Ones offer a secret sacrifice in the shrine of Apollo whenever the devotees of
Dionysus wake the God of the Mystic Basket.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 17.12px;">🔑 </span></i><i><span style="font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">We must not treat legend as it were history at
all, but we should adopt that which is appropriate in each legend in accordance
with its verisimilitude. <o:p></o:p></span></i></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-68147534044393175962021-06-08T19:45:00.000+03:002021-06-08T19:45:47.620+03:00Talks in Delphi - Program for June 2021<p></p><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;"><b><i><u><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt;">Every
Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday Evening during JUNE 2021</span></u></i></b><b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 14.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p></p><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 8.0pt; margin-left: -11.35pt; margin-right: 11.35pt; margin-top: 0cm; text-align: center;"><b><i><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;">@ Apollon Café
– High Street, Delphi. (On the lovely terrace watching the sun go down.) Meet
new people and learn something new.</span></i></b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; mso-line-height-alt: 11.4pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;">
</p><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;"><b><i><u><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;">Meet 7.00pm for a prompt
7.15 start</span></u></i></b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p></p><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; mso-line-height-alt: 11.4pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEju4-8LPLgTo7EvlLB5tKqYiRiNzCciiIHBSaL5AWNBDvVKQtT6qEVQFEVxGycjNmE9umvyYRiyrc4oXCs_hGHQ69YhYSh-oI9UyIVBuVkwNOeNqvS3mdR1WdTsqy0OwJkddUvAf_RIXRVy/s1079/philosophy+group+style.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="font-weight: bold; margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="607" data-original-width="1079" height="225" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEju4-8LPLgTo7EvlLB5tKqYiRiNzCciiIHBSaL5AWNBDvVKQtT6qEVQFEVxGycjNmE9umvyYRiyrc4oXCs_hGHQ69YhYSh-oI9UyIVBuVkwNOeNqvS3mdR1WdTsqy0OwJkddUvAf_RIXRVy/w400-h225/philosophy+group+style.jpg" width="400" /></a></p><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; mso-line-height-alt: 11.4pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;"><b><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt;">3 Introductory Philosophy
Talks With Time for Questions and Discussion Afterward.</span></b></p>
<p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; mso-line-height-alt: 11.4pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">(by James, throughout June
2021)</span><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-right: 11.35pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;"><b><i><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">3 Introductory
Talks by James:</span></i></b><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-right: 11.35pt;"><b><u><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">Monday
Nights: 'Know Yourself’</span></u></b><b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> - </span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">Socrates tells young Alcibiades; and we will look
at Plato’s book ‘First Alcibiades' to help explain this ‘apparently’ easy idea.
(Will include a general introduction to Plato and Socrates if you wish…..)</span><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-right: 11.35pt;"><b><u><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">Tuesday
Nights: ‘The Nuts and Bolts of Plato’</span></u></b><b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> - </span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">Helping us to understand
and enjoy Plato’s books more by looking at 3 regular themes frequent throughout
his writings – Metaphysics, Psyche (the soul) and Ethics</span><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-right: 11.35pt;"><b><u><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">Wednesday
Nights: Plato’s Book ‘The Phaedrus'</span></u></b><b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> - </span></b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">suggesting that LOVE is an
important driving force for our journey to the stars….. </span><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-right: 11.35pt;"><b><u><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">Note:</span></u></b><i><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> </span></i><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">No previous study of
philosophy is needed to come along and enjoy the talks, while more experienced
philosophers are also welcome. Talks are in English and last about 45
minutes with time for questions afterwards.</span><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 4.0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: justify;"><b><u><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">How to find us:</span></u></b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> The Apollon Cafe is
in the little High Street in Greece - and we are meeting on the outside terrace
at the rear of the cafe. When you arrive - please make your way through the
cafe and out on to the terrace. Please find James and let him know you are
there for the talk<i>.</i></span><span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi5WrALJ1jHCmvIQ8xMvStLHMQDc-q2hRyhyphenhyphen5Mw6PTwBXakdaloeIpYgsyYYYPQtQSoAG9Qn_vDFxQx8ZlJyg2o4761fiwtP-LQTh6pM7bKjIPIsCrc_ntKeqDG-QFXrv17d8aBHRdp_Z6R/s2048/USE+-+04+-+NICE+-+CROP.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2048" data-original-width="1536" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi5WrALJ1jHCmvIQ8xMvStLHMQDc-q2hRyhyphenhyphen5Mw6PTwBXakdaloeIpYgsyYYYPQtQSoAG9Qn_vDFxQx8ZlJyg2o4761fiwtP-LQTh6pM7bKjIPIsCrc_ntKeqDG-QFXrv17d8aBHRdp_Z6R/s320/USE+-+04+-+NICE+-+CROP.jpg" /></a></div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; mso-line-height-alt: 11.4pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;">Cost:</span></b><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> Places at the
Delphi/June talks are limited, and need to be reserved. Tickets are offered on
a ‘pay-what-you-can’ basis. (Suggested amount for those who can is 5 to 10
euros). The subject of the talk varies on different nights of the week -
so please reserve your place for the correct evening at EVENTBITE.COM at:</span></p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_TUTTd8kZucnH7yXCZMqwghXb6pwObjdQONJk2AyFhTN4dCuZGrngLUWxmmXSLdcixF3-eZnLBCVOd3E402DI9LoCT0e75trU_CfdKWI_FLXJrUalFPgpmG5cVKCdjZaGvAYbturTuEaC/s300/QR+CODE+for+EVENTBRITE+-+Delphi+Talks+-+June+2021.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="300" data-original-width="300" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi_TUTTd8kZucnH7yXCZMqwghXb6pwObjdQONJk2AyFhTN4dCuZGrngLUWxmmXSLdcixF3-eZnLBCVOd3E402DI9LoCT0e75trU_CfdKWI_FLXJrUalFPgpmG5cVKCdjZaGvAYbturTuEaC/w200-h200/QR+CODE+for+EVENTBRITE+-+Delphi+Talks+-+June+2021.png" width="200" /></a></div><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; mso-line-height-alt: 11.4pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;"><b><i><span style="color: #666666; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">….. or go to ‘<a href="https://www.eventbrite.com/e/philosophy-talks-in-delphi-june-2021-program-tickets-156130036141?aff=ebdssbdestsearch&keep_tld=1" target="_blank"><span style="color: #2288bb;">Greek Philosophy Talks from
Delphi </span></a>on Eventbrite.com</span></i></b><span style="color: #666666; font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; mso-line-height-alt: 11.4pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;"><b><i><span style="color: #666666; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">To C</span></i></b><b><span style="color: #666666; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">ontact
James:</span></b><span style="color: #666666; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> to arrange another time for a private
talk (subject to availability) for individuals and groups email:</span><span style="color: #666666; font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; mso-line-height-alt: 11.4pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; text-align: center;"><b><i><span style="color: #666666; font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">jamestalksgreece@hotmail.com</span></i></b><span style="color: #666666; font-family: "Trebuchet MS",sans-serif; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><br />Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-42885727411191318332021-02-27T14:08:00.008+02:002021-02-27T14:08:56.714+02:00Extracts of Text for ONLINE Meetup Talk on Plutarch - Weds 3rd March - 8 pm Greek Time<p> Time will be limited to read text together at the talk, and so we will use only use points v, viii, and ix of the extracts below at our meetup talk on March 3rd 2021.</p><p><br /></p><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: center; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="http://jameslongerstuff.blogspot.com/2016/06/this-down-to-earth-essay-by-plutarch.html"><b><i><span style="color: black; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%; text-decoration-line: none;">How Can We Measure Our Progress In
Virtue (Morals) & Philosophy?</span></i></b></a><span class="MsoHyperlink"><b><i><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">’</span></i></b></span><b><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: center; vertical-align: baseline;"><b><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%; padding: 0cm;">From Plutarch’s
book of essays:<i> Moralia.</i></span></b><b><i><span style="border: none windowtext 1.0pt; font-size: 14.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-border-alt: none windowtext 0cm; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; padding: 0cm;"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p>
</p><p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: center; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">(Extracts Translated to
English by Arthur Richard Shilleto, M.A.)</span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><b><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 12pt; padding: 0cm;">EXTRACTS </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><b><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 12pt; padding: 0cm;">§ v.</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> …………………… …….. ‘Similarly they relate of
Diogenes of Sinope, when he began to be a philosopher, that the Athenians were
celebrating a festival, and there were public banquets and shows and mutual
festivities, and drinking and revelling all night, and he, coiled up in a
corner of the market-place intending to sleep, fell into a train of thought
likely seriously to turn him from his purpose and shake his resolution, for he
reflected that he had adopted without any necessity a toilsome and unusual kind
of life, and by his own fault sat there debarred of all the good things. At
that moment, however, they say a mouse stole up and began to munch some of the
crumbs of his barley-cake, and he plucked up his courage and said to himself,
in a railing and chiding fashion, "What say you, Diogenes? Do your
leavings give this mouse a sumptuous meal, while you, the gentleman, wail and
lament because you are not getting drunk yonder and reclining on soft and
luxurious couches?" Whenever such depressions of mind are not frequent,
and the mind when they take place quickly recovers from them, after having put
them to flight as it were, and when such annoyance and distraction is easily
got rid of, then one may consider one's progress in virtue as a certainty.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><b><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 12pt; padding: 0cm;">§ vi.</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> And since not only the things that in
themselves shake and turn them in the opposite direction are more powerful in
the case of weak philosophers, but also the serious advice of friends, and the
playful and jeering objections of adversaries bend and soften people, and have
ere now shaken some out of philosophy altogether, it will be no slight
indication of one's progress in virtue if one takes all this very calmly, and
is neither disturbed nor aggravated by people who tell us and mention to us that
some of our former comrades are flourishing in kings' courts, or have married
wives with dowries, or are attended by a crowd of friends when they come down
to the forum to solicit some office or advocateship. He that is not moved or
affected by all this is already plainly one upon whom philosophy has got a
right hold; for it is impossible that we should cease to be envious of what
most people admire, unless the admiration of virtue was strongly implanted in
us. For over-confidence may be generated in some by anger and folly, but to
despise what men admire is not possible without a true and steady elevation of
mind. And so people in such a condition of mind, comparing it with that of
others, pride themselves on it, and say with Solon, "We would not change virtue
for wealth, for while virtue abides, wealth changes hands, and now one man, now
another, has it." </span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">And Diogenes compared his shifting about from
Corinth to Athens, and again from Thebes to Corinth, to the different
residences of the King of Persia, as his spring residence at Susa, his winter
residence at Babylon, and his summer residence in Media. And Agesilaus said of
the great king, "How is he better than me, if he is not more
upright?" And Aristotle, writing to Antipater about Alexander, said,
"that he ought not to think highly of himself because he had many
subjects, for anyone who had right notions about the gods was entitled to think
quite as highly of himself." And Zeno, observing that Theophrastus was
admired for the number of his pupils,
said, "His choir is, I admit, larger than mine, but mine is more
harmonious."</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><a name="_Hlk18071476"><b><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; padding: 0cm;">§ vii.</span></b></a><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Whenever then, by thus comparing the advantages of
virtue with external things, you get rid of envies and jealousies and those
things which fret and depress the minds of many who are novices in philosophy,
this also is a great indication of your progress in virtue. Another and no
slight indication is a change in the style of your discourses. For generally
speaking all novices in philosophy adopt most such as tend to their own
glorification; some, like birds, in their levity and ambition soaring to the
height and brightness of physical things; others like young puppies, as Plato
says, rejoicing in tearing and biting, betake themselves to strifes and
questions and sophisms; but most plunging themselves into dialectics
immediately store themselves for sophistry; and some collect sentences and
histories and go about (as Anacharsis said he saw the Greeks used money for no
other purpose but to count it up), merely piling up and comparing them, but
making no practical use of them. </span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Applicable here is that saying of Antiphanes, which
someone applied to Plato's pupils. Antiphanes said playfully that in a certain
city words were frozen directly they were spoken, owing to the great cold, and
were thawed again in the summer, so that one could then hear what had been said
in the winter. So he said of the words which were spoken by Plato to young men,
that most of them only understood them late in life when they were become old
men. And this is the condition people are in in respect to all philosophy,
until the judgement gets into a sound and healthy state, and begins to adapt
itself to those things which can produce character and greatness of mind, and
to seek discourses whose footsteps turn inwards rather than outwards, to borrow
the language of Æsop. For as Sophocles
said he had first toned down the pompous style of Æschylus, then his harsh and
over-artificial method, and had in the third place changed his manner of
diction, a most important point and one that is most intimately connected with
the character, so those who go in for philosophy, when they have passed from
flattering and artificial discourses to such as deal with character and
emotion, are beginning to make genuine and modest progress in virtue.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><b><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; padding: 0cm;">§ viii.</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"> Furthermore, take care, in reading the
writings of philosophers or hearing their speeches, that you do not attend to
words more than things, nor get attracted more by what is difficult and curious
than by what is serviceable and solid and useful. And also, in studying poems
or history, let nothing escape you of what is said to the point, which is
likely either to correct the character or to calm the passions. For as
Simonides says the bee hovers among the flowers "making the yellow
honey," while others value and pluck flowers only for their beauty and
fragrance, so of all that read poems for pleasure and amusement he alone that
finds and gathers what is valuable seems capable of knowledge from his
acquaintance with and friendship for what is noble and good. For those who study Plato and Xenophon only
for their style, and cull out only what is pure and Attic, and as it were the
dew and the bloom, do they not resemble people who love drugs for their smell
and colour, but care not for them as anodynes or purges, and are not aware of
those properties? Whereas those who have more proficiency can derive benefit
not from discourses only, but from sights and actions, and cull what is good
and useful, as is recorded of Æschylus and other similar kind of men. As to
Æschylus, when he was watching a contest in boxing at the Isthmus, and the
whole theatre cried out upon one of the boxers being beaten, he nudged with his
elbow Ion of Chios, and said, "Do you observe the power of training? The
beaten man holds his peace, while the spectators cry out." And Brasidas
having caught hold of a mouse among some figs, being bitten by it let it go,
and said to himself, "Hercules, there is no creature so small or weak that
it will not fight for its life!" </span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">And Diogenes, seeing a lad drinking water out of
the palm of his hand, threw away the cup which he kept in his wallet. So much
does attention and assiduous practice make people perceptive and receptive of
what contributes to virtue from any source. And this is the case still more
with those who mix discourses with actions, who not only, to use the language
of Thucydides, "exercise themselves in the presence of danger," but
also in regard to pleasures and strifes, and judgements, and advocateships, and
magistrateships make a display of their opinions, or rather form their opinions
by their practice. For we can no more think those philosophers who are ever
learning and busy and investigating what they have got from philosophy, and
then straightway publish it in the market-place or in the haunt of young men,
or at a royal supper-party, any more than we give the name of physicians to
those who sell drugs and mixtures. Nay rather such a sophist differs very
little at all from the bird described in Homer,</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;">
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;">offering his scholars like it whatever he has got, and as it feeds its
callow young from its own mouth, "though it goes ill with itself," so
he gets no advantage or food from what he has got for himself.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><b><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; padding: 0cm;">§ ix.</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"> We must therefore see to it that our
discourse be serviceable to ourselves, and that it may not appear to others to
be vain-glorious or ambitious, and we must show that we are as willing to
listen as to teach, and especially must we lay aside all disputatiousness and
love of strife in controversy, and cease bandying fierce words with one another
as if we were contending with one another at boxing, and leave off rejoicing
more in smiting and knocking down one another than in learning and teaching.
For in such cases moderation and mildness, and to commence arguing without
quarrelsomeness and to finish without getting into a rage, and neither to be
insolent if you come off best in the argument, nor dejected if you come off
worst, is a sufficient sign of progress in virtue. Aristippus was an excellent
example of this, when overcome in argument by the sophistry of a man, who had
plenty of assurance, but was generally speaking mad or half-witted. Observing
that he was in great joy and very puffed up at his victory, he said, "I
who have been vanquished in the argument shall have a better night's rest than
my victor." </span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">We can also test ourselves in regard to public
speaking, if we are not timid and do not shrink from speaking when a large
audience has unexpectedly been got together, nor dejected when we have only a
small one to harangue to, and if we do not, when we have to speak to the people
or before some magistrate, miss the opportunity through want of proper
preparation; for these things are recorded both of Demosthenes and Alcibiades.
As for Alcibiades, though he possessed a most excellent understanding, yet from
want of confidence in speaking he often broke down, and in trying to recall a
word or thought that slipped his memory had to stop short. And Homer did not
deny that his first line was unmetrical,
though he had sufficient confidence to follow it up by so many other
lines, so great was his genius. Much more then ought those who aim at virtue
and what is noble to lose no opportunity of public speaking, paying very little
attention to either uproar or applause at their speeches.</span></p><p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="border: none windowtext 1.0pt; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-border-alt: none windowtext 0cm; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; padding: 0cm;">§ x.</span></b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"> And not,,,,,,,,,,,,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i> x x x x x x x x x x</i></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><br /></i></p><p>The full text of Plutarch's essay and others in his Moralia is available as follows:</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal;"><b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Available free in English on Amazon (Kindle): <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> </span><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Plutarchs-Morals-Plutarch-ebook/dp/B0082W83DO"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">https://www.amazon.com/Plutarchs-Morals-Plutarch-ebook/dp/B0082W83DO</span></a><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">(Full Plutarch essay available for free and easily
printable from: </span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://jameslongerstuff.blogspot.com/2016/06/this-down-to-earth-essay-by-plutarch.html"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">https://jameslongerstuff.blogspot.com/2016/06/this-down-to-earth-essay-by-plutarch.html</span></a><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"> </span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0cm; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Also, there is a more contemporary translation by
Robin Waterfield at:</span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Essays-Penguin-Classics-Plutarch/dp/0140445641"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt;">https://www.amazon.com/Essays-Penguin-Classics-Plutarch/dp/0140445641</span></a><b><span style="border: none windowtext 1.0pt; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-border-alt: none windowtext 0cm; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; padding: 0cm;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><b><span style="border: none windowtext 1.0pt; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-border-alt: none windowtext 0cm; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; padding: 0cm;"> </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><b><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 12pt; padding: 0cm;">For Greek readers - </span></b><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 12pt; padding: 0cm;">This essay is available in ancient+modern Greek from
the delightful Kaktos bookshop – (temporarily selling online rather than in
Panepistimeo) – see Book 2 of Plutarch’s Ethics at:</span><span style="border: none windowtext 1.0pt; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-border-alt: none windowtext 0cm; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; padding: 0cm;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white; line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0cm; text-align: justify; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://www.kaktos.gr/el/authors/archaioi-suggrafeis/ploutarchos/ploutarhos-ithika-2-978-960-352-346-8.html"><span style="border: none windowtext 1.0pt; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-border-alt: none windowtext 0cm; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; padding: 0cm;">https://www.kaktos.gr/el/authors/archaioi-suggrafeis/ploutarchos/ploutarhos-ithika-2-978-960-352-346-8.html</span></a><span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; font-size: 12pt; padding: 0cm;"> </span><span style="border: none windowtext 1.0pt; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-border-alt: none windowtext 0cm; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; padding: 0cm;"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p>
</p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">(Pages 171
to 221 …. odd pages only - is the essay I will be talking about in ‘modern’
Greek. The ‘even’ pages are Ancient Greek.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p> </p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-40574789393445849632020-11-19T15:55:00.003+02:002022-03-27T15:41:26.688+03:00Believing just eighty per cent in the soul, as I suspect quite a few people do these days, can be an awkward place to be......<p> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Extract From <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540552624 " target="_blank">James Head’s Book</a> – Life
Choices: Important Tips From Socrates, Plato and Aristotle<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540552624 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><o:p> </o:p></span><b style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><i> Chapter 5 - Plato’s
Phaedo</i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">...... Remember,
we are not meant to study Plato as if he is the font of all truth and
knowledge, since in Plato’s philosophy our human soul is meant to be that font;
assuming of course that we have one in the first place and that we occasionally
listen to our souls if we do. His books should not be read like a religious
dogma. Plato was just a philosophy teacher and writer (albeit an enormously
respected one), and like any other philosophy teacher or spiritual guide, he
can only point people towards the truth. The student must then put one foot in
front of the other and walk at his or her own pace towards the truth.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjawVVqW40FEXFVptR4xdQSuUMgua7cmqcT9gDW1ZNkT7QSsvIFDZ8o6x6kjlGuV8RBVEHsio4Pl1CYMJTdjNa7YngnnKGveYBFvQFBvgRcUGl1f41IuZPfymXK8NIByTpa3iips1tniBHB/s1316/Socrates+in+Prison.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="865" data-original-width="1316" height="247" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjawVVqW40FEXFVptR4xdQSuUMgua7cmqcT9gDW1ZNkT7QSsvIFDZ8o6x6kjlGuV8RBVEHsio4Pl1CYMJTdjNa7YngnnKGveYBFvQFBvgRcUGl1f41IuZPfymXK8NIByTpa3iips1tniBHB/w412-h247/Socrates+in+Prison.jpg" width="412" /></a></div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 36.0pt;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Plato
writes to stimulate our investigation and exploration of the truth, and many of
the questions he raises and asks us to consider for ourselves are important
signs for us to follow; especially if we want to ‘prove’ the existence of the
soul to our own satisfaction at least – or alternatively perhaps disprove it.
Believing just eighty per cent in the soul, as I suspect quite a few people do
these days, can be an awkward place to be. Generally speaking, ‘life’ is much
easier and straightforward if you believe (or disbelieve) one hundred per
cent.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>(Even at the end of <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">The Phaedo,</i> one of Socrates’ closest
friends Simmias, says he is still not certain about the existence of the soul.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">It is
interesting to note that the word <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">‘theory’</i>
literally means ‘to contemplate’ in Greek, and Socrates and Plato only want us
all to come to our own theories and opinions on these matters, hopefully with
well thought out reasons to back them up. Very usefully, in my opinion,
Socrates and Plato offer us a structured approach towards such contemplation
and investigation which all too often is a rather vague or confusing
undertaking. When investigating anything (even the existence of the soul),
having a structured approach helps us to arrive at our own opinions on many
important spiritual and practical matters.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Be
careful as you take those first philosophical steps through the pages of <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">The Phaedo</i>, since Plato combines
accepted factual information, well known Greek myths, lesser known allegories,
and some divine riddles of his own making within his text. He does this to
stimulate our minds, promote our understanding of reality, and allow us to
create our own unique paths towards the truth, and perhaps also to the mystical
visions he describes. Plato is opening some windows for us to look through to
see new things, or perhaps just to see some familiar things again but from a
different perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Let me now set the scene of <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">The Phaedo</i> a little more for people
either new to this book or indeed to Socratic philosophy generally. Socrates
aged 70 has been found guilty by the law courts of ancient Athens of impiety
and corrupting the youth of the city, and has been sentenced to death. It is
400 years BCE……..<o:p></o:p></span></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-43230976203667132932020-10-15T11:51:00.007+03:002020-11-11T11:39:40.043+02:00Where Does Evil Come From - Is Proclus Right ? - Or Darth Vader ?<p> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt;"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">From: <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Life Choices - Important tips
from Socrates, Plato and Aristotle<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold;">By James
Head</span><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-style: italic;"> </span></b><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold;">(</span><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">New Edition – June 2020 </span></i><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540552624">https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540552624</a>
)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt;"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">From Essay 2 -
The Nuts and Bolts of Plato<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt;"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><br /></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-bidi-font-family: Georgia; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;">……..
My final point in this section on metaphysics is that Plato believes that the
universe and everything in it has been created or has flowed out of the one
source of everything, which is beyond all description, and which he calls ‘the
One’ and/or ‘the Good’. This of course is an interesting idea for a man like
Plato who was born and brought up as a polytheist to believe in the Olympic
religion with many Gods. One thing I also find particularly interesting here
(and a little irritating if I am honest) is that although he says that the One
is beyond all description (in an almost scientific way) he then describes the
One as the Good, which kind of adds a religious kind of dimension or overtone
to it all. Plato also says that everything that flows out of the One is also
good and perfect, but the further away things get from the One (the source of
all things) the less perfect they become. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;">If everything that flows out of the One is good and
perfect, then why is <span style="color: #222222;">there evil and suffering in
the world you may </span>ask? </span><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Socrates advises us in many of his
conversations with people, that it is wise before you start to discuss
something, that you define exactly what you mean by the term being discussed -
i.e. evil in this case. Is it a divine and malignant force operating in the
universe (as suggested in the Star Wars movies or some major organised
religions today) that affects us all if we are not very careful; or is it
simply when human beings make badly judged, selfish, or irrational actions?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>For example,
when a lioness jumps <span style="color: #222222;">on an antelope and savagely
kills it to feed her cubs, we usually do not regard that as evil at all; we
just think of this as part of ‘nature’. However, when a man kills his neighbour
for no apparent reason, of course we are shocked and consider it in some </span>way
an <span style="color: #222222;">evil thing to do, since we consider the human
being to be a civilised creature, capable of rational choices, and therefore
having the facility to choose to act wisely and decently towards other people.
So in a Platonic world view, evil (which is mainly what we tend to call certain
ways of behaving) is really a lack of good intent or action, or the lack of
control over one’s desires, or in the case of a madman – the lack of a
correctly functioning rational mind.</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="color: #222222; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; text-indent: 22.7pt;">Similarly, and more simply perhaps, if an earthquake kills 200 people,
again we do not regard it as evil – just an act of nature; whereas the
religious fanatic that blows up a passenger plane with 200 people on board we
‘regard’ as evil; since he lacks moderation in his religious beliefs and </span><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; text-indent: 22.7pt;">actions. Note that moderation (or temperance) is the
visible expression of ‘The Good’, and as far as we human beings are concerned,
largely concerned with the Life Choices we make.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">I think as philosophers we
need to consider whether good and evil really are external forces acting in the
world around us (or even throughout the universe), or are they simply just
human qualities; since we all seem to have the possibility of good and evil
choices and actions within us. Hopefully, we choose ‘good’ (or at least
‘relatively good’) actions over evil ones. However, sometimes the situation
gets a little blurred since if you killed 10 enemy soldiers in a war you might
well receive a medal from your government for doing so. On the other hand, were
you to kill the same 10 soldiers after the war had ended as they enjoyed a
drink and discussed old stories of the war, you would no doubt be arrested and
put on trial for murder.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5jnYco1kjEvjf4BjMk4S-SjqXyHyVTU2nFdCU7-orSmgy_fmtj38cKEi-tSeIqjiy33wUfRbh4JMIeCJS4S46DxfJ1ZRqBtFZhTOPDzKjX_1yGmLyT_A71iUJL9wKx7cxqkFvxQajR7nK/s960/Darth+Vader+2.webp" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="593" data-original-width="960" height="248" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5jnYco1kjEvjf4BjMk4S-SjqXyHyVTU2nFdCU7-orSmgy_fmtj38cKEi-tSeIqjiy33wUfRbh4JMIeCJS4S46DxfJ1ZRqBtFZhTOPDzKjX_1yGmLyT_A71iUJL9wKx7cxqkFvxQajR7nK/w400-h248/Darth+Vader+2.webp" width="400" /></a></div><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><br /></span><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">Somehow,
I want to believe in evil as an external force (you can blame the movie Star
Wars and Darth Vader for that), but at times I am really not convinced whether
evil is an external force or not. Sometimes I cannot help but wonder if the
whole idea of ‘evil’ is a man-made concept rather than any external force
operating in the universe; which we need to do our utmost to avoid. As far as
our practical lives are concerned (in our human bodies at least), good and evil
may be simply be about the choices we make as individuals and communities; and
the choices and decisions our leaders and organisations of influence (e.g. the
banks, the media, the Justice Department, and other powerful bodies) make on
our behalf. Nevertheless, most organised religions with influence in our modern
world today promote the idea of evil as being some kind of divine power, and
give various explanations of how it came into being in the first place (fallen
angles etc), and how it operates - and who it operates on and through. What do
you think? (My concern is that evil is usually thought of as being abstract and
‘out there’ somewhere – when in fact it is all around us, and manifests itself
in very ordinary things like: people selling us stuff we do not need and
getting people into debt, a culture of fear and insecurity, a reduction in
quality leisure time, wars we do not really need, good people turning a blind
eye to what they know is very wrong, and</span><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
</span><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">the corruption and dumbing down of young minds. I refer to these things
as ‘</span><i style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">the circles of evil’</i><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">We all
need to try and make sense of the universe, our place within it, and why things
happen the way they do all around us. Therefore, if someone prefers to think of
‘evil’ as an external force (as indeed it may well be although I have expressed
some personal doubts above on this), and this helps them to deal with and
understand things better, and make better life choices as a result, then I see
no harm per se in that.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; text-indent: 22.7pt;">According to the latter Neo Platonist Proclus in
his essay <i>‘On the Subsistence of Evil’ </i>(Proclus’
<i>Theology of Plato</i> - Book I Chapter
XVII), once the unfolding of the One or the Good gets as far as producing a
temporal universe full of time-bound lives (like ours), then it will be
necessary that temporal things come to an end. This, according to Proclus (and
remember there is controversy about some of the Neo Platonist explanations of
Plato’s texts) explains why our physical bodies eventually fail. It is in order
to make room for further bodies to take their place; and this is not evil in
itself. However, if a perpetual thing such as a human soul (in Plato's view at
least) identifies itself with a temporal physical body; then the process of
decay and death</span><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; text-indent: 22.7pt;"> ‘appears’ like an
evil to that individual. However, perhaps this is a mistake of perspective, since
no harm can really come to a soul from the demise of the physical body. Indeed,
the only real harm that can come to us (that is, our souls if we have one) is
through our own acts of injustice which is a ‘disease of the soul’. Proclus
calls the first kind of evil ‘natural’ and not really evil at all, and the
second kind unnatural, since in his view it can only be the result of a
creature with free will acting ignorantly or irrationally.......</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><b><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%;">Footnote:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%;">If you find this subject
interesting check out my earlier post (23rd June 2018 - see archive) on this subject that includes some
additional points for consideration. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%;">I particular I mention:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify; text-indent: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; text-indent: 36pt;"> ‘Additionally,
if good and evil are in some way linked (as are pain and pleasure as previously
discussed above regarding the removal of Socrates chains) it would suggest that
all of us have the potential for evil thoughts and deeds unless we are careful
with our thoughts and actions - and have control and discipline over our
desires, tempers, and other emotions. We might do well therefore, to consider
ways that encourage us and help us to keep our emotions under control; and how
to avoid things that slowly lead us towards bad and evil acts. For example, the
police officer who accepts a small bribe this month from a drug dealer for a
small favour- is likely to find him or herself is at risk a month or 2 later of
being forced to take another bribe for a much more serious favour. The person
who makes small false declarations with their company expenses this month, is
more likely in a month or 2 to make bigger force declarations - and risk losing
their good name, job and most importantly for philosophers – VIRTUE.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%;"> In
my view, we have to be real careful about things that tempt us towards small
acts of badness or corruption, since these small steps lead us down the start
of a path that may be difficult to stop once we had started.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%;"> As
in Plato’s Phaedrus - the charioteer must try to use the horse which is good
and noble, rather than that which is ugly, selfish, brutish, and bad in every
other way.’<o:p></o:p></span></p><br /><p></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-90612526169447265132020-08-17T15:31:00.001+03:002021-10-10T15:54:41.378+03:00An Underlying Problem to Finding our Own Unique Path ……. as Individuals and as a Society. <p><span style="font-size: x-large;"><i><span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; text-align: justify;">What Is The Purpose of Life? Does It Matter Anyway.....?</span></i></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">A regular
question to the attendees of my philosophy talks in Athens is ‘what is the
purpose of life’. It’s not that I particularly like asking this question, it’s
just that the underlying ideas behind it seem to crop up quite regularly when
discussing various topics within Greek philosophy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"><br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjSPOL3zGZP26JT62fjv7FCDA5usGwHZYrfAulG_NFeHLu4UMZh-4GURSgIC2dWgRSXdBxxe0tOuSe-ySZjhPQ7_NRK8Y30WBk9F7sBKShIUM_5HeO_t7TygxY_9sIERoHby9ecfraeH5hU/s1260/writing+with+pen.jpeg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="744" data-original-width="1260" height="302" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjSPOL3zGZP26JT62fjv7FCDA5usGwHZYrfAulG_NFeHLu4UMZh-4GURSgIC2dWgRSXdBxxe0tOuSe-ySZjhPQ7_NRK8Y30WBk9F7sBKShIUM_5HeO_t7TygxY_9sIERoHby9ecfraeH5hU/w512-h302/writing+with+pen.jpeg" width="512" /></a></div><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"><br /></span><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Quite
often people seem to assume that I’m asking about ‘divine purposes’ or any
reason or purpose that a God (should one exist) decide to create the universe
and everything in it. Well the audience naturally tend to fall into two camps
here depending on their own spiritual position.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">The more
religious among us start to try and come up with an answer for a universal ‘purpose
of life’. Then, oddly in some ways, the people who do not believe in any kind
of God or divine hand in the universe answer the question negatively, saying
there is no purpose to life whatsoever. Of course, it’s quite difficult
answering some of these deep questions off-the-cuff at a talk, so I cannot be
completely sure that these people really think there is no purpose at all to
life if there is no God.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">As I
quickly remind to the non-religious people - whether we are religious /
spiritual and not - at some level we all still need to have ‘some’ purpose in
life as we get out of bed in the morning and go about our daily </span><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">routines. I
disagree that no God necessarily means no purpose whatsoever. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none; text-indent: 22.7pt;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">……. and then we
start to get to the nub of the question; or rather my intended question. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;">For example, if someone asked me whether the
pen I am writing with is a good pen or not, I can say yes or no, only because I
know what a pen is - and what it is for. The same is true of say a glass to
drink water from. Does it achieve its known purpose well or not….<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>However, if I asked someone whether they were
a good person or not, if they do not know what a person actually is – and what
our purpose is – then it is pretty difficult to say yes or no with any
certainty; and everybody’s opinion about themselves and the way they live would
be as good as anyone else’s. There would no recognizable truth to anyone’s
answer. (Be careful of one of the traps with this. I asked a young gentleman ‘what’
he was and he replied that he was an engineer – and a good one too. Of course,
this would not necessarily make him a good person…… it’s not quite the same
thing.) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">So when we start to talk
about and consider finding the right path, and being ‘good’ people who use our
time wisely (or at least fairly wisely), things start to get a little
complicated. It is easy enough to know whether we are simply ‘busy’ people –
but again, that is not the same thing at all. Afterall, some of the worse
tyrants in history were fairly busy people…...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">If we do not have ‘some’
idea of what our purpose is as individuals - surely it gets difficult to say
with any certainty what the best or better path for us to follow actually is,
and indeed, what sorts of things we should be doing and not doing so often along
that path, and how we use our time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Perhaps this is one of the
underlying problems with society as a whole in the 21<sup>st</sup> century as
traditional religious explanations of the world have tended to crumble to the
forces of the media, consumerism and scientific dogmatism. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">Whether we are religious
or not - without some idea of what the main purpose of a human being is and
what it is for - surely it will be difficult to say with any certainty at all
whether our goals and objectives (indeed purposes) are good and wise ones, or
foolish.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none;"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none;"><i><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;">[Comments welcome below]<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0 0 0 40px; padding: 0px;"><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0 0 0 40px; padding: 0px;"><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0 0 0 40px; padding: 0px;"><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0 0 0 40px; padding: 0px;"><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0 0 0 40px; padding: 0px;"><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0 0 0 40px; padding: 0px;"><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0 0 0 40px; padding: 0px;"><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0 0 0 40px; padding: 0px;"><blockquote style="border: none; margin: 0 0 0 40px; padding: 0px;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none;"></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: white; mso-themecolor: background1;"><a href="https://www.oraclesfromdelphi.org/"><span style="color: white; mso-themecolor: background1;">https://www.oraclesfromdelphi.org/</span></a></span></p><p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 115%; mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none;"><i><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"></span></i></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-88823697705981698152020-06-25T14:16:00.001+03:002020-08-21T22:19:33.996+03:00<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 16pt; line-height: 107%;">Plotinus’ Treatise on the Beautiful <span style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold;">(Ennead I, vi )</span><o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<br /></div><div align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"><b style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 13.2px; text-align: justify;"><i><span style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 19.9733px;">‘Try to raise the divine in yourself to the divine in all…..’</span></i></b></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">This blog on
Plotinus is based on the online ‘meet up’ talk I gave in June 2020.</span><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;"> </span></b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">It w</span><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">ill appeal to anyone wanting to dig a bit deeper into Plato’s theory of
forms – and his World of Perfect Ideas or Forms. In particular we will be
looking at the Perfect Idea of Form of Beauty, which while including beautiful
looks – also includes
beautiful views, beautiful personalities, beautiful composition, and indeed
‘Beauty’ in the widest sense of the word.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">It may sound as if this blog post is only about abstract and vague
intellectual ideas (‘The Beautiful’ in this case……); and while it is about this
in part - it is also going deeper - perhaps much deeper - into how Plato
thought that we could live more ‘ethically’ or ‘correctly and
better’ - and indeed more ‘beautifully’ ourselves in the real world. In order
to do this Plato believes that we need first to have some understanding of what
the Idea of Beauty and the Beautiful really is in essence…..<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">Keep in mind also, that while we are largely discussing how we
could live better ‘personally’, Plato and Plotinus’s views also apply to us as
groups and communities of people (e.g. cities and countries); and about how our
leaders make decisions on our behalf.</span><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">It is a fundamental principle of Platonic
ethics and living 'the good life' that you have to try and improve yourself;
and then after that try to improve the things and people around you in a
practical way. ‘Real Greek philosophy’ is to a greater extent a ‘practical’
subject and only in part an intellectual pursuit, and often only then as a
preliminary activity to action. If this is the case, then we need to look
deeper at the link between the theoretical metaphysics of Plato– and his practical
ethics of how to live our lives in the best possible way.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">Remember metaphysics’ is simply the big
stuff that is hard to prove – or disprove - with our usual science. Metaphysics
is literally ‘above’ our known scientific principles. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Plato believed that there was another world all
around us that we cannot usually see with our eyes, but it is actually there;
and that in some ways this is the real world - in the sense of it being more
important than the world of the senses that we see all around us and that we
interact with using our human bodily senses. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">The other ‘invisible’ world, to put it
simply, we can only interact with and ‘see’ by using our mind and intellects -
and in this world Ideas can actually exist on their own without any material
examples of them. To ‘see’ in this this other world we are advised to close our
eyes – and use our intellect to see and appreciate things. For example, we are all
sitting on chairs which were ideas before they became material chairs, and
perhaps you will be drinking a wine or a beer (or maybe two) later tonight
which were also ideas before they came into being. While we can all appreciate
these ‘visual’ and ‘ordinary’ material examples of ideas becoming “things and
stuff” this is only half the story. Plato believed in a separate world of
'Perfect Ideas', which he calls ‘The Forms’ (hence Plato’s Theory of the Forms)
where the basic or first idea (let’s call it a template idea) for everything
exists in a perfect<b> </b>way</span><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">Now although chairs etc are very useful
things, and easy visual examples to discuss, this Theory of the Forms also applies
to other less visible or tangible concepts such as justice, courage, moderation
and importantly for tonight’s talk ‘Beauty’ in this other unseen world, and
here in our world, the sensible world of the bodily senses, we only see or
witness ‘particular’ examples of these things. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">I am not saying I agree or disagree – I am
just giving a little background on deeper Platonic thought and his metaphysics.
Now it is thought that Plato changed his views on this as he went through life
- so it’s not a dogma he is suggesting - but something we should consider and
contemplate as we try to get a fix on how the reality we live in really is -
and decide how we are going to live our lives in the best possible way within
that reality.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">Plato also suggests that the universe and
everything in it has been created or has flowed out of the one source or
fountain of everything, which is beyond all description, and which he calls
‘the One’ and/or ‘the Good’. (A kind of divine fountain or source of
everything…..)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">According to the writings of Plato “the
One” and the Good and very closely aligned – and almost different aspects of
the same thing. Therefore, if we could get closer to and understand better ‘the
Good’, then we would get closer to ‘The One” – the divine source.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Remember these things are ‘invisible’ Ideas –
only knowable with our intellects – and not our usual senses – such as sight or
sound. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">In Platonic thinking the ‘contemplation and
investigation’ of what the truly good and beautiful way to live is (and what
the correct specific action to take in a given situation in the real world is) -
is a pre requisite and first step in us choosing to live that way. Simply put, if
we always act quickly and impulsively, we might do the right thing; but usually
it’s better to consider what the right thing to do is before we take any
action….both as individuals or leaders of a city or group. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">In other words, we are looking at the idea
of ‘Beauty’ in its essence (or Platonic form) - tonight to see if Plotinus
suggests how we should live our life. We could of course have decided to look
at other important Ideas such as Goodness, Courage and Fortitude, Moderation, Wisdom,
Justice.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" lang="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Socrates
clearly believes in the actual existence of these perfect Ideas or Forms – and
the Idea of Perfect beauty in the ‘Platonic’ sense of the word. He says that (Plato-</span><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Phaedo-100d/e)</span></i><span face="" lang="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><span face="" lang="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">‘….. nothing makes a thing beautiful but the presence and participation
of Beauty in whatever way or manner obtained; for as to the manner I am uncertain,
but I stoutly contend that by Beauty all beautiful things become beautiful.
This appears to me to be the safest answer which I can give, either to myself
or to another, and to this I cling, in the persuasion that this principle will
never be overthrown, and that to myself or to anyone who asks the question, I
may safely reply, that by Beauty beautiful things become beautiful’.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span face="" lang="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">He
then applies this notion to other eternal Ideas such as Greatness. According to
Socrates nothing becomes great without participating in the idea of Greatness.
He also says that there is no way anything comes into existence except by
participation with its own proper essence or Form. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" lang="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">He
also says that something cannot partake of two opposite perfect Ideas at the
same time – for example hot and cold. A bowel of soup cannot be hot and cold at
the same time – it can only move from one state of being to the other in
stages….. It is a gradual process……<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="Standard" style="line-height: 115%; margin: 12pt 0cm 4pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">Let me just add a quick storey here that I
call ‘<i>The Piano Player’</i> which kind of fits in here – about moving from
one state of being to another.<b> </b>Imagine a friend introduces me to someone
who is an experienced concert pianist who sometimes offers instruction to other
pianists. Imagine also that I have been planning to learn the piano at some
point in my life, and although I have never bought a piano played one I did buy
a book ‘piano for dummies’ last week albeit I haven’t read it yet. If I then
say to this concert pianist that I would be grateful if he could give me a lesson
it makes me seem ridiculous to people; since this pianist has so many insights
to offer experienced pianists that are trying to improve. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="Standard" style="line-height: 115%; margin: 12pt 0cm 4pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">….. And in general, learning or
understanding better anything - gets better or more productive the more you
know about something in the first place. A good guitarist could really learn
something from Eric Clapton; a good artist could similarly learn from Leonardo
da Vinci. A good sculptor from Michelangelo. The person who hasn’t made any
effort at the guitar, painting or sculpture wouldn’t learn as much and might
not even understand some of the things the expert is explaining. This principle
applies even more for someone wanting to follow the philosophical path -or
simply to try and live a little bit better. A bad selfish and greedy man does
not go to bed one evening and wake up as a good man in the morning…. It also follows
that the better and more ‘beautiful’ a person you are - the closer and easier
it will be to understand the perfect ideas of The One, The Good and The
Beautiful…..<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You simply cannot recognise
and know something – if you have no idea about that thing….. For example again,
only a dedicated and trained mathematician can appreciate fully some high
powered mathematical concepts ….<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">There is another problem – even for
dedicated and experienced philosophers trying to following the right path. Contemplating
the Good and The One is very difficult for everyone– and much harder than
contemplating some of the other template Ideas or Forms…..<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="Standard" style="line-height: 115%; margin: 12pt 0cm 4pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">Plato suggests that The Beautiful is the
visible expression of the Good……..<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>and
we can more easily see and understand examples of beautiful things around us
(beautiful people – on the inside and out – beautiful sunsets and views ….. beautiful
actions and behaviours - and we can listen to beautiful music etc……. So “if” we
can get to understand a little better what the Beautiful actually is…… it helps
us to understand what The Good is – and this in turn helps to give us some idea
of what ‘The One’ is…..<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>since they are
closely related….. Plato suggests that understanding ‘the Beautiful’ could be a
stepping stone towards understanding the good. This blog is only trying to
present an ‘overview’ of these things…..<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="_Hlk38107513"><o:p></o:p></a></span></div>
<div class="Standard" style="line-height: 115%; margin: 12pt 0cm 4pt; text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<span style="mso-bookmark: _Hlk38107513;"><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">This idea of steadily moving and working towards where you want to be
with something being important in many fields of endeavour…… (like the piano
player I just mentioned) .. includes if you are trying to be a good or
‘beautiful’ person - (again in its broadest sense) person. In Platonic thinking
- the better and more beautiful a person you are - the easier it will be to
understand and better the perfect ideas of The Beautiful, The Good, and who
knows…. even The One<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="Standard" style="line-height: 115%; margin: 12pt 0cm 4pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="mso-bookmark: _Hlk38107513;"><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">[Side Note:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>someone trying to pick a beautiful diamond
out of the bag of fake diamonds will find it very hard to do if he or she does
not really know what a real diamond looks like. Choosing the real diamond will
be guesswork at best; and might at worse be related to our physical senses and
desires. E.g. someone might simply choose the biggest and shiniest looking
diamond in the bag.]<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<span style="mso-bookmark: _Hlk38107513;"></span>
<br />
<div class="Standard" style="line-height: 115%; margin: 12pt 0cm 4pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 115%;">So let’s discuss now what Plotinus has to
say about this other worldly idea of ‘The Beautiful and the Good’ to see if it
can help us get our own fix on these things – or at least help guide us with
our own contemplation or search for the Beautiful… and the Good ….. and I
suppose if we are very fortunate The One or the divine source of everything….<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Short Biography of Plotinus<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Plotinus was born in 204/205 C.E. apx in Egypt, the
exact location of which is unknown. In his mid-twenties we do know he gravitated
to Alexandria, where he attended the lectures of various philosophers, not
finding satisfaction with any until he discovered the teacher Ammonius Saccas.
He remained with Ammonius until 242 (ie about 20 years), at which time he
joined up with the Emperor Gordian on an expedition to Persia, for the purpose,
it seems, of engaging the famed philosophers of that country in the pursuit of
wisdom. The expedition never met its destination, for Gordian was assassinated on
the way in Mesopotamia, and Plotinus returned to Rome to set up his own philosophy
school. (He was about 40 at this time) He taught philosophy in Rome for twenty
years before the arrival of a special student to his school called Porphyry,
who was destined to become his most famous pupil, as well as his biographer and
the editor of his various writings…..<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">It was at this time, encouraged by Porphyry, that
Plotinus (in his 60’s) began to collect his lecture notes / treatise and essays
into any systematic form, and to compose new ones. His writings on various
subjects are collectively known as The Enneads – and we are going to look at
one of them this evening. (Although Plotinus regarded Plato as the ultimate
authority on all things philosophical, he was known to have disagreed with him
on occasions. After all – he was a great thinker and philosopher in his own
right……<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>eg<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Ennead IV.8.1 )<span style="color: red;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Plotinus is regarded by many as the father of the
Neo Platonists and Neoplatonic movement - <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>since he was a great admirer of Plato, and
refers to him along with many other philosophers in his writings; and indeed
makes engaging references to Plato’s writings – using similar symbols and
metaphors…...<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Without going too far into this for this blog –
suffice to say we should be cautious of thinking that all the Neo Platonists
were the same and had similar views. This just isn’t the case since they
covered a period of some 350 years – from say the founding of Plotinus’ school
in Rome to the closing of all the philosophy schools in Athens around 520 CE.
For example, some 200 years after Plotinus there was a another group of
philosophers in Athens who are also regarded as Neo Platonists by many as they
offer many commentaries and explanations of Plato. However, in my view,</span><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;"> some of
these ‘latter’ Neo Platonists of Athens (rather than the earlier Neo Platonists
like Plotinus and Porphyry of the 3<sup>rd</sup> century CE based in Rome) seem
to be given much more dogmatically and prescriptively than those of the
original philosophers Socrates and Plato who they claim to be explaining. It is
an interesting subject for another talk maybe - but for the moment just be
cautious of thinking that all the Neoplatonists were the same and shared the
same ideas and views. </span><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">A final biographical point on Plotinus is that we
should not make the mistake of regarding Plotinus as nothing more than a
commentator on Plato, albeit a brilliant, entertaining and very understandable one.
He was an original and profound thinker in his own right who wrote his own
philosophical ideas as well. It is true that he borrowed and re-worked many
things that he found useful from earlier thinkers such as Plato, and even from
his opponents, in order to construct his essays and treatises. This great
thinker and writer Plotinus died in solitude at Campania Italy in 270 C.E. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Let us now look at one of Plotinus’ pieces or
Enneads that is Ennead I, part vi<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>which
is sometimes known as his <i>Treatise on The Beautiful</i>. The piece itself is
only 10 to 12 pages long - but it is a bit long for a blog post discussion. I
have therefore chosen 3 extracts to give you a good flavour of what’s going on.
(Refer to a previous post on this blog on 15th May 2020 for the <a href="https://socrates4today.blogspot.com/2020/05/text-for-meetup-group-members-for-talk.html" target="_blank">"Text Extracts".</a> Alternatively, the full piece to read if you wish is available at: <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<a href="http://jameslongerstuff.blogspot.com/2020/04/plotinus-on-beauty-ennead-i-vi-trans.html">http://jameslongerstuff.blogspot.com/2020/04/plotinus-on-beauty-ennead-i-vi-trans.html</a><b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">) <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">(Extract A) Plotinus tries to describe Beauty and
define it<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<b style="text-indent: 48px;"><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 19.9733px;">Notice:</span></b></div>
<span style="mso-bookmark: _Hlk43900481;"></span>
<br />
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">We are talking about
Beauty in its very widest sense… <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">The connection and
similarities between the ‘idea’ of Beauty in the divine world, and this other
visible world of the senses. (This crops up with The Cave and The Phaedrus. In
the Phaedrus the lover sees a beautiful face in this world - but is reminded of
the divine Beauty he once saw when his soul - not attached to his earthly body
- followed a God to the outer heavens. You will see that Plotinus in his
various writings often includes and refers very directly to some Platonic
passages, themes and myths.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">(Extract B) </span></b><b><i><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">– The
Importance of Virtue and Living Correctly</span></i></b><br />
<b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></b>
<b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Notice:</span></b></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Beautiful ways of
life….<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Being in control of
‘lusts’. (… Although Plato never suggests that being in love with someone - of
physical intimacy is a bad thing at the appropriate time. This is different to
someone who is a slave to their desires whether that be drink, sex, money or
whatever. None of these things are necessarily bad providing we are in control
and act appropriately with some moderation – according to Plato at least. </span><b><i><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%;"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-style: italic; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><b><i><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%;"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">(Extract C – Parts 1 and 2) Acting and living
‘beautifully’</span></b><b><i><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%;"> (i.e How to Make Ourselves More Beautiful a both
from a theoretical and practical point of view……) </span></i></b><b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Pt 1 = ‘Theoretically’ and Pt 2 = ‘Practically’</span></b><br />
<b style="text-indent: 36pt;"><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></b>
<b style="text-indent: 36pt;"><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Notice:</span></b></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">To actually “see” the perfect
Beauty is the challenge<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">How to find it or see
it. (We must shut our eyes to see…)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Not visible to the
profane – (ties in with my piano player storey and being able to see the true
diamond in the bag.) We will not see the Beautiful if we do not have ‘some
idea’ what it is we are looking for…..<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Finding our way<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Looking after and
finishing our own personal ‘statues’ <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin-top: 12pt; mso-add-space: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-align: justify; text-indent: -18pt;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><span style="mso-list: Ignore;">-<span style="font: 7pt "times new roman";">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Plotinus suggests that
our goal should not simply be to live like a good person - but to live
perfectly and beautifully like a God?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<b><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Some closing remarks if I may…..<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">So that’s a flavour of what Plotinus writes about Beauty.
He tries to define what beauty actually is (which is a good place to start any
philosophical discussion or contemplation) - and comes to a working definition
at least that will do for his own purposes…… He then talks about the process of
improving ourselves by living in virtue and living ‘correctly’ however we
define this – again for our own purposes.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>This is just the path or part of the process in achieving or seeing real
Beauty in ourselves which is necessary if we are to be able to recognise divine
Beauty at all. If you remember, I talked about only good piano players being
able to learn from a great piano player – and not the beginners. There is a
need for time and effort from us in the early stages. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Then later on in Plotinus’ essay he talks about us
actually seeing ‘the Good and the Beautiful’ (there are echoes of Plato’s
Phaedrus here which talks about the ascent of the soul represented by a chariot
with 2 horses; and of Plat’s myth of the Cave); <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>and us not just ‘aspiring’ to be that way
(like a God) but to actually live in a godlike way ourselves. Platonic
philosophy is not just about reading books, discussing and observing – its
about actually LIVING that way…….<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">However, if we want to live in a good and beautiful
way – FIRST we have to explore what these ideas actually mean in their purest
sense – and then only secondly focus our attentions on trying to achieve them……
since ‘trying’ is an important part of Plato’s ethical living.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">Plotinus uses the attractive and very understandable
metaphor of a sculptor trying to make his statue as good as he possibly can by
making small improvements here and there towards the end…… And he suggests that
we should look at ourselves in the same way as we go through life - and make
small improvements regularly to ourselves where we can….<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">In many of the talks I have given previously I have
tried to strip away the extra details of Platonic philosophy so the we can
grasp the essential ideas underneath. (A bit like unwrapping a Christmas
present that has been over wrapped with too much string, tape and layers of
paper…..)<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">However, tonight we have gone the other way – and looked
a bit deeper into the details of why Plato’s essential Ideas or Theory of Forms
(and his metaphysics) are important to consider and understand a little…… as it
helps us get a grasp at a true<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>understanding of the things around us…. or that we could have around
us….. In part, it offers us another layer of reasoning and motivation to live
in a certain way….. when on the face of it, carrying on as we are in some
matters is more appealing to our down to earth senses and primal desires……<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">I hope you have enjoyed this small taste of
Plotinus - and begin to see the importance of Plato’s Forms - and this world of
ideas a little clearer…… We don’t have to agree with everything Plato, Socrates
– or Plotinus says - but they can give us important signposts to follow as we
make our own search for the Beautiful, the Good, and then who knows - even the
One or the Divine itself… […. Since these things remember, according to Plato,
are all closely related….]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">I leave you with the
final words of Plotinus who on his deathbed said to his friends and students
gathered there:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-align: justify;">
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><i><span face="" style="font-family: georgia, serif; font-size: 14pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Try
to raise the divine in yourself to the divine in all…..’<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
<br />
<br /></div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-85679861476188371672020-05-30T16:47:00.001+03:002020-08-23T19:07:41.507+03:00Text for Talk - 'Know Yourself' - Gnothi Sayton<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><i><b>
Text for talk 'Know Yourself'</b></i><br /><br /></div><div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<br />
<div align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;">
<b><i><span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 22pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>‘Know Yourself’<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b><i><span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 22pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></i></b></div>
<div align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><b><i>'Extracts' from Plato’s First Alcibiades</i></b><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">(Translated by Benjamin Jowett 1817 –
1893)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">(From Apx 129a)
[<b>Context</b> – Socrates has been talking about the shoes on our feet and
rings on our finger not being the actual person ‘themselves’…]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Then
in taking care of what belongs to you, you do not take care of yourself?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Certainly not. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: For
the art which takes care of our belongings appears not to be the same as that
which takes care of ourselves? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Clearly not. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
now let me ask you what is the art with which we take care of ourselves? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: I
cannot say. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: At
any rate, thus much has been admitted, that the art is not one which makes </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">any
of our possessions, but which makes ourselves better? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
True. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: But
should we ever have known what art makes a shoe better, if we did not know a
shoe? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Impossible. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Nor
should we know what art makes a ring better, if we did not know a ring? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
That is true. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
can we ever know what art makes a man better, if we do not know what we are
ourselves? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Impossible. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
is self-knowledge such an easy thing, and was he to be lightly esteemed who
inscribed the text on the temple at Delphi? Or is self-knowledge a difficult
thing, which few are able to attain? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: At
times I fancy, Socrates, that anybody can know himself; at other times the task
appears to be very difficult. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: But
whether easy or difficult, Alcibiades, still there is no other way; knowing <u>what
we are</u>, we shall know how to take care of ourselves, and if we are ignorant
we shall not know. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
That is true. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Well,
then, let us see in what way the self-existent can be discovered by us; that
will give us a chance of discovering our own existence, which otherwise we can
never know. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: You
say truly. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Come,
now, I beseech you, tell me with whom you are conversing?—with whom but with
me? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: As I
am, with you? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: That
is to say, I, Socrates, am talking? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
Alcibiades is my hearer? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes. </span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And I in talking use words? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Certainly. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
talking and using words have, I suppose, the same meaning? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: To
be sure. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
the user is not the same as the thing which he uses? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
What do you mean? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: I
will explain; the shoemaker, for example, uses a square tool, and a circular
tool, and other tools for cutting? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: But
the tool is not the same as the cutter and user of the tool? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: Of
course not. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
in the same way the instrument of the harper is to be distinguished from </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">the
harper himself? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: It
is. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Now
the question which I asked was whether you conceive the user to be always
different from that which he uses? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: I
do. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Then
what shall we say of the shoemaker? Does he cut with his tools only or with his
hands? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
With his hands as well. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: He
uses his hands too?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">[From apx </span><i><span face="" lang="EN" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;">First Alcibiades-129 c ]</span></i><span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES
[Talking about the shoemaker…]:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>And does
he use his eyes in cutting leather? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: He
does. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
we admit that the user is not the same with the things which he uses? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Then
the shoemaker and the harper are to be distinguished from the hands and feet
which they use? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Clearly. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
does not a man use the whole body? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Certainly. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
that which uses is different from that which is used? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
True. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Then
a man is not the same as his own body? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
That is the inference. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: What
is he, then? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: <b>I
cannot say. I do not know.<o:p></o:p></b></span></div>
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<b><span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">---------</span></b><span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Nay,
you can say that he is the user of the body. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"><br /></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And the user of the body is the
soul? <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>[….. or simply X Factor / psyche
]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes, the soul. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
the soul rules?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Let
me make an assertion which will, I think, be universally admitted. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
What is it? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: That
man is one of three things. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
What are they?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Soul,
body, or both together forming a whole. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Certainly. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: But
did we not say that the actual ruling principle of the body is man? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes, we did. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: And
does the body rule over itself? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Certainly not. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: It is
subject, as we were saying? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Yes. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: Then
that is not the principle which we are seeking? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES: It
would seem not. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: But
may we say that the union of the two rules over the body, and </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">consequently that
this is man? <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">ALCIBIADES:
Very likely. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span face="" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif;">SOCRATES: The
most unlikely of all things; for if one of the members is subject, the two
united cannot possibly rule. </span><o:p></o:p></div>
<br />
<b>(end of extract)</b><br />
<br /></div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-51282797621573889082020-05-15T17:21:00.001+03:002020-06-25T20:34:20.309+03:00Text Extracts - for Meetup Group Members on Plotinus and Beauty (Ennead 1,vi)<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<b><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 14.0pt; line-height: 107%;">PLOTINUS
– ON BEAUTY – Ennead I, vi<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 14.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">(Trans. A
H Armstrong)<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Extracts’
only for Online Meetup Talk - Monday 15th June 2020 - 8.00 pm Greek Time) <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">(The full 7 page piece can be found
at: <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="https://jameslongerstuff.blogspot.com/2020/04/plotinus-on-beauty-ennead-i-vi-trans.html">https://jameslongerstuff.blogspot.com/2020/04/plotinus-on-beauty-ennead-i-vi-trans.html</a><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>)<b><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<br /></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></i></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Extract A – Trying to Define ‘Beauty’ In Its
Broadest and Metaphysical Sense<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></i></b></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Ch 1<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Beauty is mostly in sight, but it
is to be found too in things we hear, in combinations of words and also in
music, and in all music [not only in songs]; for tunes and rhythms are
certainly beautiful: and for those who are advancing upwards from sense perception
ways of life and actions and characters and intellectual activities are
beautiful, and there is the beauty of virtue. If there is any beauty prior to
these, this discussion will reveal it.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Very well then, what is it which
makes us imagine that bodies are beautiful and attracts our hearing to sounds
because of their beauty? And how are all the things which depend on soul
beautiful? Are they all made beautiful by one and the same beauty or is there
one beautifulness in bodies and a different one in other things? And what are
they, or what is it? Some things, bodies for instance, are not beautiful from
the nature of the objects themselves, but by participation, others are beauties
themselves, like the nature of virtue. The same bodies appear sometimes
beautiful, sometimes not beautiful, so that their being bodies is one thing,
their being beautiful another. What is this principle, then, which is present
in bodies? We ought to consider this first. What is it that attracts the gaze
of those who look at something, and turns and draws them to it and makes them
enjoy the sight? If we find this perhaps we can use it as a stepping-stone and
get a sight of the rest. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Nearly everyone says that it is good
proportion of the parts to each other and to the whole, with the addition of
good colour, which produces visible beauty, and that with the objects of sight
and generally with everything else, being beautiful is being well-proportioned
and measured. On this theory nothing single and simple but only a composite
thing will have any beauty. It will be the whole which is beautiful, and the
parts will not have the property of beauty by themselves, but will contribute
to the beauty of the whole. But if the whole is beautiful the parts must be
beautiful too; a beautiful whole can certainly not be composed of ugly parts;
all the parts must have beauty. For these people, too, beautiful colours, and
the light of the sun as well, since they are simple and do not derive their
beautifulness from good proportion, will be excluded from beauty. And how do
they think gold manages to be beautiful? And what makes lightning in the night
and stars beautiful to see? And in sounds in the same way the simple will be
banished, though often in a composition which is beautiful as a whole each
separate sound is beautiful.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Ch 2………<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">And when, though the same good
proportion is there all the time, the same face sometimes appears beautiful and
sometimes does not, surely we must say that being beautiful is something else
over and above good proportion, and good proportion is beautiful because of
something else? But if when these people pass on to ways of life and beautiful
expressions of thought they allege good proportion as the cause of beauty in
these too, what can be meant by good proportion in beautiful ways of life or
laws or studies or branches of knowledge? How can speculations be
well-proportioned in relation to each other? If it is because they agree, there
can be concord and agreement between bad ideas. The statement that
"righteousness is a fine sort of silliness" agrees with and is in
tune with the saying that "morality is stupidity"; the two fit
perfectly. Again, every sort of virtue is a beauty of the soul, a truer beauty
than those mentioned before; but how is virtue well proportioned? Not like
magnitudes or a number. We grant that the soul has several parts, but what is
the formula for the composition or mixture in the soul of parts or speculations
? And what [on this theory], will the beauty of the intellect alone by itself
be ?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">So let us go back to the
beginning and state what the primary beauty in bodies really is. It is
something which we become aware of even at the first glance; the soul speaks of
it as if it understood it, recognises and welcomes it and as it were adapts
itself to it. But when it encounters the ugly it shrinks back and rejects it
and turns away from it and is out of tune and alienated from it. Our
explanation of this is that the soul, since it is by nature what it is and is
related to the higher kind of reality in the realm of being, when it sees
something akin to it or a trace of its kindred reality, is delighted and
thrilled and returns to itself and remembers itself and its own possessions.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">What likeness, then, is there
between beautiful things here and There? If there is a likeness, let us agree
that they are alike. But how are both the things in that world and the things
in this beautiful? We maintain that the things in this world are beautiful by
participating in form; for every shapeless thing which is naturally capable of
receiving shape and form is ugly and outside the divine formative power as long
as it has no share in formative power and form. This is absolute ugliness. But
a thing is also ugly when it is not completely dominated by shape and formative
power, since its matter has not submitted to be completely shaped according to
the form.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Ch 3<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">The form, then, approaches and
composes that which is to come into being from many parts into a single ordered
whole; it brings it into a completed unity and makes it one by agreement of its
parts; for since it is one itself, that which is shaped by it must also be one
as far as a thing can be which is composed of many parts. So beauty rests upon
the material thing when it has been brought into unity, and gives itself to
parts and wholes alike. When it comes upon something that is one and composed
of like parts it gives the same gift to the whole; as sometimes art gives
beauty to a whole house with its parts, and sometimes a nature gives beauty to
a single stone. So then the beautiful body comes into being by sharing in a
formative power which comes from the divine forms………..<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Extract B – The Importance
of Virtue and Living Correctly<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></i></b></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Ch 4<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">…………………….<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Then we must ask the lovers of that which is
outside sense "What do you feel about beautiful ways of life, as we call
them, and beautiful habits and well-ordered characters and in general about
virtuous activities and dispositions and the beauty of Souls? What do you feel
when you see your own inward beauty? How are you stirred to wild exultation,
and long to be with yourselves, gathering your selves together away from your
bodies?" For this is what true lovers feel. But what is it which makes
them feel like this? Not shape or colour or any size, but soul, without colour
itself and possessing a moral order without colour and possessing all the other
light of the virtues; you feel like this when you see, in yourself or in
someone else, greatness of soul, a righteous life, a pure morality, courage
with its noble look,' and dignity and modesty advancing in a fearless, calm and
unperturbed disposition, and the godlike light of intellect shining upon all
this. We love and delight in these qualities, but why do we call them
beautiful? They exist and appear to us and lie who sees them cannot possibly
say anything else except that they are what really exists. What does
"really exists" mean? That they exist as beauties. But the argument
still requires us to explain why real beings make the soul lovable. What is
this kind of glorifying light on all the virtues? Would you like to take the
opposites, the uglinesses in soul, and contrast them with the beauties? Perhaps
a consideration of what ugliness is and why it appears so will help us to find
what we are looking for.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Ch 5<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Suppose, then, an ugly soul,
dissolute and unjust, full of all lusts, and all disturbance, sunk in fears by
its cowardice and jealousies by its pettiness, thinking mean and mortal
thoughts as far as it thinks at all, altogether distorted, loving impure
pleasures, living a life which consists of bodily sensations and finding
delight in its ugliness. Shall we not say that its ugliness came to it as a
"beauty" brought in from outside, injuring it and making it impure
and "mixed with a great deal of evil," with its life and perceptions
no longer pure, but by the admixture of evil living a dim life and diluted with
a great deal of death, no longer seeing what a soul ought to see, no longer
left in peace in itself because it keeps on being dragged out, and down, and to
the dark? Impure, I think, and dragged in every direction towards the objects
of sense, with a great deal of bodily stuff mixed into it, consorting much with
matter and receiving a form other than its own it has changed by a mixture
which makes it worse; just as if anyone gets into mud or filth he does not show
any more the beauty which he had: what is seen is what he wiped off on himself
from the mud and filth; his ugliness has come from an addition of alien matter,
and his business, if he is to be beautiful again, is to wash and clean himself
and so be again what he was before. So we shall be right in saying that the
soul becomes ugly by mixture and dilution and inclination towards the body and
matter.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">This is the soul's ugliness, not
being pure and unmixed, like gold, but full of earthiness; if anyone takes the
earthy stuff away the gold is left, and is beautiful, when it is singled out
from other things and is alone by itself. In the same way the soul too, when it
is separated from the lusts which it has through the body with which it
consorted too much, and freed from its other affections, purged of what it gets
from being embodied, when it abides alone has put away all the ugliness which
came from the other nature….<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></i></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Extract C – How to Make
Ourselves More Beautiful <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></i></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="_Hlk39657282"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">(Extract
C part 1 - ‘theoretically’)</span></a><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Ch 7<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">So we must ascend again to the
good, which every soul desires. Any-one who has seen it knows what I mean when
I say that it is beautiful. It is desired as good, and the desire for it is
directed to good, and the attainment of it is for those who go up to the higher
world and are converted and strip off what we put on in our descent; (just as
for those who go up to the celebrations of sacred rites there are
purifications, and strippings off of the clothes they wore before, and going up
naked) until, passing in the ascent all that is alien to the God, one sees with
one's self alone That alone, simple, single and pure,' from which all depends
and to which all look and are and live and think : for it is cause of life and
mind and being. If anyone sees it, what passion will he feel, what longing in
his desire to be united with it, what a shock of delight!<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">The man who has not seen it may
desire it as good, but he who has seen it glories in its beauty and is full of
wonder and delight, enduring a shock which causes no hurt, loving with true
passion and piercing longing; he laughs at all other loves and despises what he
thought beautiful before; it is like the experience of those who have met
appearances of gods or spirits and do not any more appreciate as they did the
beauty of other bodies. "What then are we to think, if anyone contemplates
the absolute beauty which exists pure by itself, uncontaminated by flesh or
body, not in earth or heaven, that it may keep its purity?" All these
other things are external additions and mixtures and not primary, but derived
from it……………….<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><o:p><br /></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">(Extract C part 2 -
‘practically’)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Ch 8<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">….. But how shall we find the
way? What method can we devise? How can one see the "inconceivable beauty
" which stays within in the holy sanctuary and does not come out where the
profane may see it? Let him who can, follow and come within, and leave outside
the sight of his eyes and not turn back to the bodily splendours which he saw
before. When he sees the beauty in bodies he must not run after them; we must
know that they are images, traces, shadows, and hurry away to that which they
image. For if a man runs to the image and wants to seize it as if it was the
reality (like a beautiful reflection playing on the water, which some story
somewhere, I think, said riddlingly a man wanted to catch and sank down into
the stream and disappeared) then this man who clings to beautiful bodies and
will not let them go, will, like the man in the story, but in soul, not in
body, sink down into the dark depths where intellect has no delight, and stay
blind in Hades, consorting with shadows there and here.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">This would be truer advice
"Let us fly to our dear country." What then is our way of escape, and
how are we to find it? We shall put out to sea, as Odysseus did, from the witch
Circe or Calypso as the poet says, I think with a hidden meaning, and was not
content to stay though he had delights of the eyes and lived among much beauty
of sense.' Our country from which we came is there, our Father is there. How
shall we travel to it, where is our way of escape? We cannot get there on foot;
for our feet only carry us everywhere in this world, from one country to
another. You must not get ready a carriage, either, or a boat. Let all these
things go, and do not look. Shut your eyes, and change to and wake another way
of seeing, which everyone has but few use.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">And what does this inner sight
see? When it is just awakened it is not at all able to look at the brilliance
before it. So that the soul must be trained, first of all to look at beautiful
ways of life : then at beautiful works, not those which the arts produce, but
the works of men who have a name for goodness : then look at the souls of the
people who produce the beautiful works. How then can you see the sort of beauty
a good soul has?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Ch 9<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Go back into yourself and look;
and if you do not yet see yourself beautiful, then, just as someone making a
statue which has to be beautiful cuts away here and polishes there and makes
one part smooth and clears another till he has given his statue a beautiful
face, so you too must cut away excess and straighten the crooked and clear the
dark and make it bright, and never stop "working on your statue" till
the divine glory of virtue shines out on you, till you see " self-mastery
enthroned upon its holy seat." If you have become this, and see it, and
are at home with yourself in purity, with nothing hindering you from becoming
in this way one, with no inward mixture of anything else, but wholly yourself,
nothing but true light, not measured by dimensions, or bounded by shape into
littleness, or expanded to size by unboundedness, but everywhere unmeasured,
because greater than all measure and superior to all quantity; when you see
that you have become this, then you have become sight; you can trust yourself
then; you have already ascended and need no one to show you; concentrate your
gaze and see. This alone is the eye that sees the great beauty.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">But if anyone comes to the sight
bleary eyed with wickedness, and unpurified, or weak and by his cowardice unable
to look at what is very bright, he sees nothing, even if someone shows him what
is there and possible to see. For one must come to the sight with a seeing
power made akin and like to what is seen. No eye ever saw the sun without
becoming sun-like,' nor can a soul see beauty without becoming beautiful. You
must become first all godlike and all beautiful if you intend to see God and
beauty.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">First the soul will come in its
ascent to intellect and there will know the Forms, all beautiful, and will
affirm that these, the Ideas, are beauty; for all things are beautiful by
these, by the products and essence of intellect. That which is beyond this we
call the nature of the Good, which holds beauty as a screen before it. So in a
loose and general way of speaking the Good is the primary beauty; but if one
distinguishes the intelligibles [from the Good] one will say that the place of
the Forms is the intelligible beauty, but the Good is That which is beyond, the
"spring and origin" of beauty; or one will place the Good and the
primal beauty on the same level: in any case, however, beauty is in the intelligible
world<b>. </b><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-56555185968909235532020-04-23T13:01:00.000+03:002020-04-23T13:01:00.970+03:00"ONLINE TALK" - The Nuts and Bolts of Plato - An informal talk by James<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><b>ONLINE TALK </b>- Monday 27th April 2020 – 7.00 pm “Greek Time”. </span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">(Join us from anywhere in the world. Check out the time of the talk where you
are here: <a href="https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/">https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/</a> )<br />
<br /><br />
The talk will last about 35 minutes with some time afterwards for questions and
discussion.<br />
<br />
Note A: Quick notes on how to join this “online” meetup talk are at the bottom
of these details. No one needs to see or hear you if you do not wish. You can
just join and listen if you want.<br />
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Note B: Some meetup member will have already heard this talk in Athens last
summer 2019. We will refresh some of the previous points and introduce some new
ideas as well. (This talk helps prepare the ground for a new talk soon on
Plotinus and his treaty on ‘Beauty’. (Ennead I, vi )<br />
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What this talk 'Nuts and Bolts of Plato' is about</b>:<br />
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The talk will appeal to people who already know something about Socrates and
Plato and want to know a little bit more. That said, no previous study of
philosophy is needed to join and enjoy this talk. I will look at three central
themes in Plato's writings: Metaphysics (i.e. the big stuff which is hard to
prove scientifically – including Plato’s theory about Ideas and Forms); Psyche
and the Soul in Plato (assuming we have one at all that is…); and a quick look
at Plato’s ethics (i.e. the moral values and beliefs we have as individuals, or
as collective communities.) This talk will help prepare us for a new talk
coming soon on Plotinus and ‘Beauty’. (Ennead I, vi )<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">COST: In keeping with the Socratic tradition, James' meetup
talks are offered free of charge for people who attend. However, voluntary
contributions are accepted to help out with the ongoing expenses of putting on
talks (usually face to face – but currently online) and other philosophical
activities. (There is no pressure to contribute.) Contributions can be made via
Paypal to: <a href="mailto:jamesdelphi2000@gmail.com">jamesdelphi2000@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">How to join this ‘online’ talk:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><a href="https://www.meetup.com/Athens-Philosophy-Talks-Walks-and-Discussions-with-James/events/270108955/">"ONLINE
TALK" - The Nuts and Bolts of Plato</a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">+ More Info at: <a href="https://www.meetup.com/Athens-Philosophy-Talks-Walks-and-Discussions-with-James/">Greek
Philosophy Talks, Walks, and Discussions (with James) </a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-87847469534002793552019-10-16T17:41:00.002+03:002020-10-20T12:19:58.430+03:00Text for Meetup Group Members For the Talk on Plato's Cave<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br style="mso-special-character: line-break;" />
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Extracts of Plato’s Cave:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">(Plato’s Book Republic – 514a to 517a)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Translated by: Waterfield, Robin. Republic (Oxford
World's Classics) OUP Oxford. Kindle Edition.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">(Socrates is recounting a discussion he has had previously
with his friend Glaucon - regarding the education of the young - and the future
leaders of the Athenian state.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">The Prisoner Ascends from the
Cave (Plato’s Republic – 514a to 517a)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">514a ‘Next,’ I said, ‘here’s a situation which you can
use as an analogy for the human condition—for our education or lack of it.
Imagine people living in a cavernous cell down under the ground; at the far end
of the cave, a long way off, there’s an entrance open to the outside world.
They’ve been there since childhood, with their legs and necks tied up in a way
which keeps them in one place and allows them to look only straight ahead, but
not to turn their heads. There’s firelight burning a long way further up the
cave behind them, and up the slope between the fire and the prisoners there’s a
road, beside which you should imagine a low wall has been built—like the partition
which conjurors place between themselves and their audience and above which
they show their tricks.’ b<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘All right,’ he said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Imagine also that there are people on the other side of this
wall who are carrying all sorts of artefacts. These artefacts, human
statuettes, and animal models carved in stone and wood and all kinds of
materials stick out over the wall; and as you’d expect, some of the people talk
as they carry these objects along, while others are silent.’ c<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">This is a strange picture you’re painting,’ he said, ‘with
strange prisoners.’ 515a <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘They’re no different from us,’ I said. ‘I mean, in the first
place, do you think they’d see anything of themselves and one another except
the shadows cast by the fire on to the cave wall directly opposite them?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Of course not,’ he said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"> ‘They’re forced to spend their lives without moving
their heads.’ ‘And what about the objects which were being carried along? Won’t
they only see their shadows as well?’ b<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Naturally.’</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"> ‘Now, suppose they were able to talk to one another:
don’t you think they’d assume that their words applied to what they saw passing
by in front of them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘They couldn’t think otherwise.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">“And what if sound echoed off the prison wall opposite them?
When any of the passers-by spoke, don’t you think they’d be bound to assume
that the sound came from a passing shadow?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘I’m absolutely certain of it,’ he said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘All in all, then,’ I said, ‘the shadows of artefacts would
constitute the only reality people in this situation would recognize.’ c<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘That’s absolutely inevitable,’ he agreed. d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘What do you think would happen, then,’ I asked, ‘if they were
set free from their bonds and cured of their inanity? What would it be like if
they found that happening to them? Imagine that one of them has been set free
and is suddenly made to stand up, to turn his head and walk, and to look
towards the firelight. It hurts him to do all this and he’s too dazzled to be
capable of making out the objects whose shadows he’d formerly been looking at.
And suppose someone tells him that what he’s been seeing all this time has no
substance, and that he’s now closer to reality and is seeing more accurately,
because of the greater reality of the things in front of his eyes—what do you
imagine his reaction would be? And what do you think he’d say if he were shown
any of the passing objects and had to respond to being asked what it was? Don’t
you think he’d be bewildered and would think that there was more reality in
what he’d been seeing before than in what he was being shown now?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Far more,’ he said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘And if he were forced to look at the actual firelight, don’t
you think it would hurt his eyes? Don’t you think he’d turn away and run back
to the things he could make out, and would take the truth of the matter to be
that these things are clearer than what he was being shown?’ e<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Yes,’ he agreed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘And imagine him being dragged forcibly away from there up the
rough, steep slope,’ I went on, ‘without being released until he’s been pulled
out into the sunlight. Wouldn’t this treatment cause him pain and distress? And
once he’s reached the sunlight, he wouldn’t be able to see a single one of the
things which are currently taken to be real, would he, because his eyes would
be overwhelmed by the sun’s beams?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘No, he wouldn’t,’ he answered, ‘not straight away.’516a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘He wouldn’t be able to see things up on the surface of the
earth, I suppose, until he’d got used to his situation. At first, it would be
shadows that he could most easily make out, then he’d move on to the
reflections of people and so on in water, and later he’d be able to see the
actual things themselves. Next, he’d feast his eyes on the heavenly bodies and the
heavens themselves, which would be easier at night: he’d look at the light of
the stars and the moon, rather than at the sun and sunlight during the
daytime.’ b<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Of course.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">And imagine, he’d be able to discern and feast his eyes on the
sun—not the displaced image of the sun in water or elsewhere, but the sun on
its own, in its proper place.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Yes, he’d inevitably come to that,’ he said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘After that, he’d start to think about the sun and he’d deduce
that it is the source of the seasons and the yearly cycle, that the whole of
the visible realm is its domain, and that in a sense everything which he and
his peers used to see is its responsibility.’ c<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Yes, that would obviously be the next point he’d come to,’ he
agreed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Now, if he recalled the cell where he’d originally lived and
what passed for knowledge there and his former fellow prisoners, don’t you
think he’d feel happy about his own altered circumstances, and sorry for them?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Definitely.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Suppose that the prisoners used to assign prestige and credit
to one another, in the sense that they rewarded speed at recognizing the
shadows as they passed, and the ability to remember which ones normally come
earlier and later and at the same time as which other ones, and expertise at
using this as a basis for guessing which ones would arrive next. Do you think
our former prisoner would covet these honours and would envy the people who had
status and power there, or would he much prefer, as Homer describes it, “being
a slave labouring for someone else—someone without property”, and would put up
with anything at all, in fact, rather than share their beliefs and their
life?’ d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Yes, I think he’d go through anything rather than live that
way,’ he said. e<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Here’s something else I’d like your opinion about,’ I said.
‘If he went back underground and sat down again in the same spot, wouldn’t the
sudden transition from the sunlight mean that his eyes would be overwhelmed by
darkness?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"> ‘Certainly,’ he replied.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Now, the process of adjustment would be quite long this time,
and suppose that before his eyes had settled down and while he wasn’t seeing
well, he had once again to compete against those same old prisoners at
identifying those shadows. Wouldn’t he make a fool of himself? Wouldn’t they
say that he’d come back from his upward journey with his eyes ruined, and that
it wasn’t even worth trying to go up there? And wouldn’t they—if they could—grab
hold of anyone who tried to set them free and take them up there, and kill
him?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘They certainly would,’ he said. 517a</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">The Escaped Prisoner Must Go Down Into The
Darkness Again To Help The Others<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">(Republic-519c/d to 520e):<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Our job as founders, then,’ I said, ‘is to make sure that the
best people come to that fundamental field of study (as we called it earlier):
we must have them make the ascent we’ve been talking about and see goodness.
And afterwards, once they’ve been up there and had a good look, we mustn’t let
them get away with what they do at the moment.’ e<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Which is what?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"> ‘Staying there,’ I replied, ‘and refusing to come back
down again to those prisoners, to share their work and their rewards, no matter
whether those rewards are trivial or significant.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘But in that case,’ he protested, ‘we’ll be wronging them:
we’ll be making the quality of their lives worse and denying them the better
life they could be living, won’t we?’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘You’re again forgetting, my friend,’ I said, ‘that the point
of legislation is not to make one section of a community better off than the
rest, but to engineer this for the community as a whole. Legislators should
persuade or compel the members of a community to mesh together, should make
every individual share with his fellows the benefit which he is capable of
contributing to the common welfare, and should ensure that the community does
contain people with this capacity; and the purpose of all this is not for
legislators to leave people to choose their own directions, but for them to use
people to bind the community together.’ e<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">520a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">‘Yes, you’re right,’ he said. ‘I was forgetting.’ b<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"> ‘I think you’ll also find, Glaucon,’ I said, ‘that we
won’t be wronging any philosophers who arise in our community. Our remarks, as
we force them to take care of their fellow citizens and be their guardians,
will be perfectly fair. We’ll tell them that it’s reasonable for philosophers
who happen to occur in other communities not to share the work of those
communities, since their occurrence was spontaneous, rather than planned by the
political system of any of the communities in question, and it’s fair for
anything which arises spontaneously and doesn’t owe its nurture to anyone or
anything to have no interest in repaying anyone for having provided its
nourishment. “We’ve bred you, however,” we’ll say, “to act, as it were, as the
hive’s leaders and kings, for your own good as well as that of the rest of the
community…..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">You’ve received a better and more thorough education than
those other philosophers, and you’re more capable of playing a part in both
spheres. So each of you must, when your time comes, descend to where the rest
of the community lives, and get used to looking at things in the dark. The
point is that once you become acclimatized, you’ll see infinitely better than
the others there; your experience of genuine right, morality, and goodness will
enable you to identify every one of the images and recognize what it is an
image of.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">And then the administration of our community—ours as well as
yours—will be in the hands of people who are awake, as distinct from the norm
nowadays of communities being governed by people who shadow-box and fall out
with one another in their dreams over who should rule, as if that were a highly
desirable thing to do. No, the truth of the matter is this: the less keen the
would-be rulers of a community are to rule, the better and less divided the
administration of that community is bound to be, but where the rulers feel the
opposite, the administration is bound to be the opposite.”’ c d</span></p><p class="MsoNormal">end</p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-72858107301731457832019-04-10T18:37:00.001+03:002019-04-12T17:24:43.492+03:00Plato's Other World of the FORMS - and Understanding The Myth of the Cave Better<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt;">Plato's Other World -
and Starting to Understand ‘The Myth of the Cave’ Better; and why this might be
connected to living sustainably – and in a happier and more preferable way
generally….<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<span lang="EN" style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">... Very basically, Plato believed that there was
another world all around us that we cannot usually see with our eyes, but it is
actually there; and that in some ways this is the ‘real’ world - in the sense
of it being more important than the world we see all around us and that we
interact with using our human bodily senses. This ‘invisible’ world, to put it
simply, we can only interact with by using our mind and intellect, hence; it
has come to be known as the ‘intelligible’ world amongst people who discuss
Plato, as oppose to the ‘sensible’ world which we interact with using our human
senses. This is a very basic and simple outline of this area.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN" style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Socrates also keeps it simple, as usual, and
says most of us are like frogs living around a pond. We do not realise that
there is another bigger and far more important world just on the other side of
the motor way. Of course, he did not actually say motorway…. but you get the
idea. Socrates also uses the famous <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">‘Myth
of the Cave’ </i>(</span><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Republic-514a) </span></i><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">in part to explain that we do not see how it
‘really’ is, but only see a tiny part of what the world and universe is all
about. It is a notable coincidence that modern physicists and cosmologists on
the cutting edge of science today predict that we are only seeing a small part
of what the universe is made of and how it really is. For example, the ‘many
worlds’ approach to answer some questions in quantum physics is a respected
theory – although as yet far from proven. Although the ideas of modern physics
to be found in Plato might make an interesting essay for another book, it is
not under the remit of this introductory essay, and so let us now go down into
the darkness of Plato’s important Myth of the Cave.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN" style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">In the Myth of the Cave, Socrates talks
allegorically about prisoners who have been kept underground since birth in
special chairs with their heads fixed facing a wall. There is an odd
arrangement of a wood fire and a path through the cave behind them, which means
that they have only ever seen the reflections of objects on a wall in front of
them as the objects pass along the path behind them. The prisoners have never
seen the objects or other people that go along the path for real, but only the
reflections on the wall in front of them. To amuse themselves as the years pass
by, the prisoners give the reflections on the wall names, and have competitions
on who can guess what object (or rather reflections) they will see next. Of
course, the unfortunate prisoners think that what they see is the real thing.
They have no idea that what they are seeing is just a reflection or shadow of
the real object.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgeoenqY-wfs6j-eki-tetlDJijg2SZ-T3QdX-FODMykIvH41_FG2BA5JkaWakdAd44HhNJM6ANuQg7PF0JWcB-280HxxM3ShdaAYpQmtfnI6oCXJIMjyzF7PakRI8ZgmVa25NtYvm8WGnO/s1600/CAVE+for+BLOG.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="330" data-original-width="600" height="220" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgeoenqY-wfs6j-eki-tetlDJijg2SZ-T3QdX-FODMykIvH41_FG2BA5JkaWakdAd44HhNJM6ANuQg7PF0JWcB-280HxxM3ShdaAYpQmtfnI6oCXJIMjyzF7PakRI8ZgmVa25NtYvm8WGnO/s400/CAVE+for+BLOG.jpg" width="400" /></a></div>
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<span lang="EN" style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Now one of the prisoners is set free from his
chair, and is ‘dragged’ slowly up the bumpy tunnel from the dark underground
cave to the surface and to the ‘light’. It hurts his eyes at first as he slowly
makes his way up the tunnel because he has always been used to the darkness of
the cave. It takes time for his eyes and mind to adjust as he gets higher up
the tunnel and nearer the light at the entrance of the cave. Finally, he
reaches the surface and steps into the bright sunlight; and after his eyes have
had more time to adjust, he is able to see things as they really are for the
first time, and not just as mere reflections on the dimly lit wall of the cave.
This is a good moment for all new seekers of wisdom and enlightenment to pause
and ask themselves what Plato means by this myth – and why does the prisoner
need to be ‘dragged’ up the tunnel to the light?<span style="color: red;"> </span>(Note:
More about <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">The Cave </i>soon…. and why many
people in the modern world do not want to leave it….)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span lang="EN" style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 10.0pt; line-height: 115%;">(Piece above taken from <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NK3KPKV">Life Choices –
New Edition 2019</a></b> p/s 44-46)<span style="color: red;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-62782563788325234312018-12-20T17:16:00.001+02:002019-06-08T13:54:50.156+03:00ENVIRONMENT - Having the Option To Refill Plastic Water Bottles<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: "georgia" , "utopia" , "palatino linotype" , "palatino" , serif; font-size: medium;"><i><b>About Having The Option to Refill Plastic Water Bottles for say 30 cents - rather than always needing to buy a new one for 60 cents....</b></i></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;"><b><i><br /></i></b></span>
<span style="font-size: medium;"><b><i>(A 'practical philosophy' project in 2019)</i></b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #222222; font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 16px;">As a regular walker and ‘litter picker’ I am constantly collecting plastic water bottles from along the paths of the beautiful locations where I walk. I know people talk about re-cycling and putting stuff in the right box for the garbage man – but surely the problem is we are using far too many plastic bottles and other packaging to start with. The Mediterranean alone must use tens of millions (if not hundreds of millions) of these little plastic drinking bottles each year. Globally the number must be mind boggling</span><br />
<i style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 13.2px;"><b><span style="font-size: medium;"><br /></span></b></i>
<i style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 13.2px;"><b><span style="font-size: medium;"><br /></span></b></i>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 18.4px;">I just want people to be at least have the option to take their empty bottles into a supermarket or fast food outlet and be able to get a refill for their plastic bottles if they wish - at a lower price than if they buy their water in a new plastic bottle. Clearly, some kind of vending machine (office water cooler perhaps with re-usable bigger containers) could easily be adapted to make this possible and indeed some water vending machines already exist - and are readily available at modest cost.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 18.4px;">Bottled water is big business for companies like Evian, but with water vending machines they could still make a profit – and be brought onside to support the idea of saving on disposable plastic. Indeed, with the growing public opposition to using disposable plastics, and creeping legislation, their successful business model to date may not tenable 10 to 15 years from now. The water companies therefore might be interested in suggestions for adapting their business model sooner rather than later if this case. Certainly, the big water bottle companies have the right people with the right skills, and the right distribution networks to get the job done; that is to encourage people to refill their water bottles rather than 'automatically' buy water in a new plastic bottle. Giving people the choice on how they buy their water is important.</span></div>
<i style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: Georgia, Utopia, "Palatino Linotype", Palatino, serif; font-size: 13.2px;"></i><br />
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<span style="font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 18.4px;"><i><b>So how can we encourage the refilling of water bottles among the thirsty public; and encourage bottled water companies to offer refill vending? </b></i></span></div>
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-3355021584526712522018-06-23T16:24:00.001+03:002022-03-27T15:40:25.441+03:00On the nature of Good and Evil - 01<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Good and Evil – What is it?<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></b></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In the Phaedo, after Socrates has his
chains removed, he says that he feels a pleasure from his legs where the chains
had been just a short while before. He suggests that pain and pleasure may be part
of the same thing - and perhaps joined together in some way with a common head.
In other words, he suggests that these two opposites are connected in some
way.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Indeed, in the Socratic thought,
the connection of various opposites is a common thought - i.e. something can
only become hot if it was cooler before; the fast running race horse must have
been running slowly to begin with before it was running fast. We can think of many
more smaller ‘particular’ examples of this connection of opposites by a common
root or thread.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt;"> However, also in the Phaedo, when Socrates
gives his first ‘proof’ of why he thinks that the soul exists (from his five
proofs) he talks about the proof of ‘generation of opposites’ and that life is
generated from death, and vice versa. As a proof that the soul exists, I do not
find this convincing, and my reasons are not important for the purposes of this
short article on good and evil. Nevertheless, it does suggest another level of ‘opposites’
being connected in some way.</span><br />
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt;"> So, when trying to decide what good and
evil are and where they come from - one avenue of exploration and personal
investigation is to consider whether good and evil are connected in some way.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Secondly, we can consider whether good
and evil are external forces acting in the world around us – or even throughout
the universe. Are good and evil simply just human qualities – since we all seem
to have the possibility of good and evil actions within us - but hopefully
choose ‘good’ (or at least ‘relatively good’) actions over evil ones. Sometimes
the situation gets a little blurred since if you killed 10 enemy soldiers in a
war you might well receive a medal from your government for doing so. However,
were you to kill the same 10 soldiers after the war had ended as they enjoyed a
drink and discussed old stories of the war, you would be arrested and put on
trial for murder.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I would suggest that good and evil may
simply be predominantly human qualities, since when the lioness kills the
antelope to feed her Cubs - it is not considered an act of evil; but a man
killing his neighbours for no apparent reason would probably be considered so
by many. Similarly, when an earthquake kills 200 people we do not consider it
as an act of evil. However, when the religious fanatic blows up a passenger aeroplane,
or leaves a bomb in a bar full of young people enjoying a drink or a concert,
then we do regard the killing of the 200 people as an act of evil. As in most
philosophical thought, the practical details appear important; or are good and
evil ‘absolutes’ of ‘perfect ideas’ and therefore never changing?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Now in traditional platonic thought (or at
least as suggested by the later commentator Proclus some 800 years after Plato)
evil as such does not exist; since the whole universe in his view flows out of
the one source of everything; and that one source is always good. In this view,
evil does not exist - only a lack or even complete absence of the ‘the good’.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In regard to our human concept of evil and evil
actions by some people; this idea suggests that evil actions are simply a lack
of ‘good judgement’ or the inability to make a ‘good’ rational choice. For
example, an otherwise good man might kill another man in a moment of anger -
and thus have committed an evil act as a lack of good judgement; and he would
no doubt regret his action the following day. Similarly, but somewhat differently,
the madman who kills his neighbour over a minor matter would be lacking the
healthy and good mind in order to make a good rational choice. Even if he<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>did not regret his action the next day if in
a confused and unstable mental state, in many ways it would be hard to define
his actions as a result of some ‘evil power’ operating within the universe, or
at least within anthropomorphic part of it. The man was simply unwell and
lacking a good healthy mind to make a reasonable action.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Most organised religions with influence
in our modern day promote the idea of evil as being some kind of divine power
and give various explanations of how it came into being in the first place
(fallen angles etc), and how it operates - and who it operates on and through.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The above few short paragraphs offer no
clear answers – but simply allow us to start our investigation of evil.
Socrates advises us in many of his conversations with people, that is wise
before you start to discuss something, that you define exactly what you mean by
the term being discussed - i.e. evil in this case. Is it a divine and malignant
force operating in the universe (as suggested in the Star Wars movies or some
major organised religions today) that affects us all if we are not very careful;
or is it simply when human beings make badly judged or irrational actions.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Additionally, if good and evil are in
some way linked (as are pain and pleasure as previously discussed above regarding
the removal of Socrates chains) it would suggest that all of us have the
potential for evil thoughts and deeds unless we are careful with our thoughts
and actions - and have control and discipline over our desires, tempers, and
other emotions. We might do well therefore, to consider ways that encourage us
and help us to keep our emotions under control; and how to avoid things that slowly
lead us towards bad and evil acts. For example, the police officer who accepts
a small bribe this month from a drug dealer for a small favour- is likely to
find him or herself is at risk a month or 2 later of being forced to take
another bribe for a much more serious favour. The person who makes small false
declarations with their company expenses this month, is more likely in a month
or 2 to make bigger force declarations - and risk losing their good name, job
and most importantly for philosophers – VIRTUE.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In my view, we have to be real careful about
things that tempt us towards small acts of badness or corruption, since these
small steps lead us down the start of a path that may be difficult to stop once
we had started.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>As in Plato’s Phaedrus - the charioteer must
try to use the horse which is good and noble, rather than that which is ugly,
selfish, brutish, and bad in every other way.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-306353502009899512018-05-19T19:06:00.002+03:002018-06-23T14:59:56.710+03:00‘Plato’s Academy’ versus ‘The Platonic Academy’<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><b>‘Plato’s Academy’ versus ‘The Platonic
Academy’</b><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">(the quickest of summaries….)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Extract below taken from James’ Monday
night talk in Athens:</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><i><b>'Socrates, Plato, Know Yourself and Live Moderately’.</b></i><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"> Although tonight is not a history
lesson – I do want to give you now just a few dates and facts now about Socrates
and Plato. Socrates lived for 69 or 70 years and died 400 b.c.e. [….or 399 to
be precise with the dates... which in most ways we do not need to be as
philosophers - rather than historians)<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So if we do the maths …. 400’ish B.C.E. less 70
- means Socrates was born about 469 or 470 B.C.E. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Now Socrates had many students over the years
– but he did not run a school and have loads of students like a regular teacher
- or usually give talks to big groups of people. (There were just a few exceptions
to this…) <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He spoke to small groups of
people and friends and to individuals mostly. As mentioned - the most well known
of these friends and students was Plato – who was born about 40 years after
Socrates – so that’s about 430 B.C.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>(or
428 for those who like to be precise :)<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>The philosophical interaction and friendship between the two of them can
only of lasted about 12 to 15 years at most – which is not a long time really<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">. <o:p></o:p></b></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><br /></b></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"> </span>Yet; </span><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Socrates had a profound
effect on Plato – who after Socrates death (when he was still only a young man about
30) started writing down the words and ideas of his teacher and friend Socrates
in books – usually as short dialogues - between Socrates and whoever he was
talking to at the time. (Incidentally - Socrates sentenced to death by suicide
and Plato distraught and disgusted – but we won’t go into that this evening… It’s
all in Plato’s book ‘Phaedo’ if you are interested.)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Now there is quite rightly – much academic
controversy about Plato’s books in the matter of how much of what he wrote was
truly Socrates words and ideas – and how much was Plato giving his own views and
ideas through the mouthpiece of Socrates in his books. Remember – as 90% of
what we know about Socrates comes from the books of Plato this is pretty
important if you are interested in this stuff. These days, most commentators on
the subject agree that probably Plato’s earlier books were closer records of
the words and ideas of Socrates - than perhaps some of his later books which
may of contained some (or a lot depending on your point of view) of Plato’s own
ideas and stories as well.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>[My own
opinion on this is….. he didn’t need a mouthpiece… + often obvious when he was
or was not using Socrates mouth… eg Gorgias…]</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt;"><b> </b>As well as writing these books about
Socrates - 10 years after Socrates death – Plato now aged about 40 – decided to
open a school for philosophy – and opens the first ever ‘academy’ – Plato’s
Academy …. for general studies and the study of philosophy in its various forms</span>. This is where the word ‘academy’ comes from –
literally…. (<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt;"> By the way - the site of this old academy – the first
‘academy’ in the world ever - is just a 15 minute bus ride out of the centre of
Athens if you are interested…. and I can tell you how to get there later if you
want.)</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span>
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi3wSJmvyGP81Ob-cACAkVYheD05ObL5KKSF8UWsNAP7TdAy94RWXfypNPbfm1r1D2Fjdo0E0fUy-XvnL1MsmbXwPhAh9Sb9D5R8iFZTbMYtWiUENIeB17MfvBEDwQwvEpCMo1N6YoWSxq1/s1600/2014-09-13+12.54.01.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1200" data-original-width="1600" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi3wSJmvyGP81Ob-cACAkVYheD05ObL5KKSF8UWsNAP7TdAy94RWXfypNPbfm1r1D2Fjdo0E0fUy-XvnL1MsmbXwPhAh9Sb9D5R8iFZTbMYtWiUENIeB17MfvBEDwQwvEpCMo1N6YoWSxq1/s320/2014-09-13+12.54.01.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span>
<br />
<div style="text-align: center;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #545454; font-family: "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: x-small; text-align: left;">The School of Athens is one of the most famous frescoes by the Italian Renaissance artist Raphael. It is in the Vatican Museum of Rome - and is huge! Well worth the the trip...</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"> So this friend and student of
Socrates ‘Plato’ opens his academy 10 years after Socrates death in 399/400
B.C. and this educational institution (and I emphasise the name ‘Plato’s
Academy’ ) then carries on almost uninterrupted as a place of learning in
Athens– for about 400 years until 86 BCE when this original academy was closed and
destroyed during the Mithridatic Wars– and the students and teachers scattered to
some other cities – notably to Alexandria in Egypt. <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><o:p></o:p></b></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Then another 400 years or so later – in
about 410 CE some other philosophers, now usually referred to as the Neo-Platonists, opened a new philosophy school calling it ‘the Platonic Academy’ –
and in many ways revived the interest in the written texts of Plato – although
some of the interpretations of the texts they gave have been controversially
received by modern commentators. Some respected commentators say that the Neo-Platonists (such as Proclus) have helped to explain the deeper and
hidden meanings within Plato’s original texts; but other respected commentators
would say they have added their own later interpretations to the texts and have
nothing much of value to add to our understanding of Plato’s writing - and indeed the central ideas of Socrates. Like many arguments, as indeed Socrates himself says in the Phaedo, there
are probably good and bad points in both points of view. This is a pretty involved
discussion and not one we need to concern ourselves with in any depth this evening – but
something just to make you aware of. In any case this new later Platonic
Academy came to an end in 529 CE when the Roman Emperor Justinian closed all
the philosophical schools in Athens, of which there were several – and not just
this new ‘Platonic Academy’.<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><o:p></o:p></b></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Let’s also consider all the schools, colleges
and universities around the world today that study Socrates and Plato in one
way or another…. <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><o:p></o:p></b></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Now what on earth did all these old
Platonic academies back then - and modern schools and colleges around the world
today study -<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>and what was it about
Socrates and Plato that so many people worldwide have found so important for so
long? <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><o:p></o:p></b></span></div>
<br />
<br /></div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-37760995145581222532017-10-08T18:25:00.000+03:002018-06-23T15:01:11.343+03:00Grasping the Hidden Meanings and Main Themes in Plato<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<div style="text-align: justify;">
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 2pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"> It is said that of all the Greek philosophers that Plato is the hardest to get a definite handle on. There is a story that shortly before his death he had a dream in which he was a swan and that people were chasing him with nets trying to catch him without success which seems to symbolise this point nicely. So why is this so, that it is difficult for anyone to get a definite fix on Plato and know exactly what he means in his writings. Well firstly, he usually writes in a wonderful rich poetic style, and as with most poets he fits many layers of meaning into the words and phrases he uses. Additionally, many of the subjects he talks about require a lot of contemplation from the reader themselves, and as a result, we all ‘kinda’ finish up with a slightly different opinion or feeling of what it was all about after we read one of his books, or even a small section of a book such as one of his wonderful myths or allegories.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 2pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"> Now Socrates did not like this idea at all, that people all went away with their own different idea about what he was trying to explain, and this is definitely one of the reasons Socrates had for not writing anything down for general circulation (i.e. books) although he may well have made some odd notes for his own use. Socrates preferred to discuss things face to face so that afterwards his friends, students, or other associates could ask questions and then leave him knowing exactly what he had meant. This is certainly not the situation for many of us after reading one of Plato's books.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 2pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"> Even Plato himself, this great ancient writer and poet, says quite definitely in his writings that the written word is inferior to the spoken word when it comes to explaining philosophical matters. And in a way we all agree with him anyway, otherwise teachers would not need to turn up for lessons but simply post the text of their lessons on their websites. Similarly, business people would not need to fly around the world for meetings – they could just send an email. In a way we all feel that the face to face spoken word method is usually best when trying to explain something, and that somehow it will offer greater insights than just reading about something. For example, we have all had experience of the limitations of emails for conveying personal matters.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 2pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">So when we consider further this difficulty of getting a fix and definite understanding on Plato’s meanings, we need to keep in mind that there were different layers of meaning in his books rather like a poet. We also need to realise that some things were purposely veiled and hidden by Plato in his texts so as to allow only his more experienced and trusted students of philosophy reading them to understand them fully and receive the full wisdom hidden within them. This quite naturally begs the questions ‘why’ did he choose to do this, and 'what' was it that he only wanted trusted students to know. And sorry, it is only a question …. and just one of several questions I will leave hanging in the air during this essay for your own further consideration at some other time. Philosophy teachers (like maths teachers) tend to ask questions rather than just give out answers; and we all need to ask ourselves personally why Plato put in the veils and the hidden meanings.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 2pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Finally, on this rather mysterious point of hidden meanings,......</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 2pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">......... Having made my above remarks about the difficulties of generalising about Plato’s meanings, let us now try and catch that elusive swan if we can and see what he is about. As mentioned I am going to divide Plato’s main ideas, or rather some central themes which occur often throughout his books into three main areas – metaphysics (literally meaning above physics laws), psyche and matters concerning the soul; and ethics – meaning more or less what is right and wrong in the way we live our lives as individuals and civil societies.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 2pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">(From Essay 2 - 'The Nuts and Bolts of Plato' of James’ new book ‘Life Choice – Important Tips From Socrates, Plato and Aristotle’ - Extracts of p. 35 - 40) </span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 2pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">For more details and a description of this book click: </span><a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01NB038OQ" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="background-color: transparent; color: #1155cc; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Life Choices at Amazon</span></a><span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span></div>
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-4708448193739280292017-05-20T12:44:00.001+03:002017-10-27T19:57:30.446+03:00Socrates and Psyche - What Does It Mean to Be Human ?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">......Now when I give this essay as a talk in Athens, I used to say jokingly that any atheists should cover up their ears for 90 seconds or so since I want to talk briefly about what Socrates has to say about the soul. However, as one young lady in my audience kindly reminded me at one of these talks, the Greeks used the word ‘psyche’ meaning literally ‘breath’ for the rational mind and inner self – which has been translated rather clumsily as ‘soul’ by most translators of the ancient Greek Platonic texts. Just keep in mind for now that the word psyche to the ancient Greeks did not have quite as much (or the same) religious baggage as the word soul has for us today. So atheists can feel comfortable about reading the next few paragraphs anyway, and I am grateful for the young lady in question for reminding me of the need to mention this point at this stage to any future listeners or readers. This point about psyche instead of soul is covered in a bit more detail in the next essay ‘The Nuts and Bolts of Plato’ and so I will not delay on this issue here. </span></div>
<b id="docs-internal-guid-fb8b15e4-1229-ca04-60c0-8d0ff1a54633" style="font-weight: normal;"><br /></b>
<br />
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">What Socrates has explained to Alcibiades (in my previous blog post) is that what we (the self) actually are is ‘souls’ (psyche, essence) and that this ‘knowing ourselves’ is really about knowing that we are souls – at least according to Socrates and Plato. Socrates believes therefore that if anyone is going to take good care of, improve, or inform one’s ‘self’ better (and make better Life Choices for a good and happy life), then it is of primary importance to worry less about the material consumer type possessions and other man made possessions which are just added on to our bodies (like the shoes, the rings, the tools, the powerful political office, the titles and the celebrity) – but to ensure that we take good care of our souls and live in a way that is good for the soul. So the study of philosophy as it was meant by Socrates and Plato was not just about knowing on which date various famous philosophers were born, or what date Plato opened the Academy even though it might be interesting. Neither was it simply about what Socrates and Plato thought about democracy or how to organise the ideal city politically. Nor was the philosophy of Socrates and Plato simply about how to present clever arguments or discuss complicated abstract ideas. One of the central themes of Socratic philosophy was about how to look after our souls in the very best way we can, and nearly all the books of Plato deal with this subject in one way or another. For generations, many teachers of philosophy in schools and colleges have failed to make this clear to their students.</span></div>
<b style="font-weight: normal;"><br /></b>
<br />
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">This idea that we need to look after our psyche or our souls may be all very easy to quote from Plato’s writings on Socrates, but what does it all mean to our lives today (if anything) and how can it help us, especially if we are not particularly spiritual people or even atheists. Let me try to explain by asking three quick rhetorical questions and then draw this first essay to a close. My first question is do you believe that we human beings have a soul, and that the soul somehow ‘kinda’ lives on after our body has died? It does not matter why or how you think or feel this but just whether you have that kind of feeling or not. I am not suggesting what answer is correct; but I do suggest that depending on the answer a person gives to this question, it will usually have a big effect on the way that person chooses to live their life.</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Now my second question, just for those who do believe in something ‘up there’, is do you believe that the kind of life we live or lead here on earth will somehow affect the way our souls go on after we die? Judgment may be too strong a word maybe, since I am just talking about a vague sense that ‘good’ people who try to live ‘good’ lives somehow benefit in some way when or if we move on. (… and of course not everyone thinks that we do….)</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">My third and final rhetorical question is for those who do not believe in a soul which somehow goes on after death. Do you think that it is better to try and live your life in a good, kind, considerate, environmentally sustainable and virtuous way rather than living in a greedy, selfish, non-caring way? (Well of course you do – I hope!)</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">So my point is whether we believe strongly in the existence of the soul – or maybe just a little – or even not at all – perhaps we can all still agree that: ‘some ways of living are preferable to others’. The philosophy of Socrates and Plato is very much about trying to work out logically what those preferable ways of living are; whether they apply to us as individuals or to us as members of communities such as cities and countries; so there is plenty to interest atheists as well as spiritual people in ‘real’ Greek or Socratic philosophy.</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Remember Socrates was very modest about all of his ideas, and this is one of the reasons personally why I really like him, and spend a little time investigating what he has to say on a few things, whether I agree with him or not. In another of Plato’s dialogues (The Phaedo) he says that even if he is mistaken and the soul does not exist and does not go on after death, he still prefers to live the life of a good and decent man rather than the life of a bad selfish guy, and so he says he has nothing to lose or fear either way by trying to make himself wiser and living the best type of life he can.</span></div>
<b style="font-weight: normal;"><br /></b>
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<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">However, in contrast to this easy going attitude about his own ideas and whether you agree with him or not, Socrates also says that the un-examined life is not worth living. What he means by this is that providing ‘you wonder’ about a few things and realise when you do not know all the answers; and then assuming you have the curiosity to find out slowly about some of those issues; you will have started to become philosophers and lovers of wisdom yourself – as indeed Socrates hopes to persuade Alcibiades to be. If you then build up certain intellectual skills and techniques to examine things wisely and methodically you will be able to come up with your own well informed ideas and opinions on various subjects - and that is the most important thing to Socrates whether you agree with him or not. For then you will have become a little bit wiser as you go through life, and started to become real philosophers yourselves in the Socratic sense of the word. More importantly still, you will also have begun to ‘Know Yourself’' - and to know exactly where and what you are.....</span></div>
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<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">FOOTNOTE: </span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Some important tips for young travellers, new philosophers or older searchers looking for the right path; and indeed for any lost tourists. (Actually, these were some of the discussion points for the end of my Athens talks on this subject. I include them now in case you would like to think about one or two of them while waiting for your next flight or train….. )</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">- Sometimes when appropriate, we are obliged to realise that we are in completely the wrong place we need to be in order to start the path we want.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">- On long journeys, we only have to be a few degrees off course from the right direction we want to take, but after a while this can become a big mistake and we finish up in a completely different place to where we planned to go.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">- Sometimes on the Athens metro we first need to get off the blue line to the airport – if we need or want to get on the green line to Piraeus and the port where the ferry boats leave to the Greek islands. The blue line metro will never get you close to the boats – it’s going somewhere else.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">- Even when following the correct way of our own chosen path there are good places to turn left and right – or take a rest – as we go along. It is important to realise when these turns or breaks come along. (A little experience helps.)</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">- Changing course to go around a difficult obstacle, or taking a break for a while, is not the same as wavering from the path or somehow failing. Few paths are a simple straight and steady line - unfortunately!</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.38; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;">
<span style="background-color: transparent; color: black; font-family: "georgia"; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">(From Essay 1 of James’ new book ‘Life Choice – Important Tips From Socrates, Plato and Aristotle’ p. 30 - 34) </span><span style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 12pt; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">For more details and a description of this book click: </span><br />
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Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-1296782143333933802017-02-18T17:25:00.000+02:002017-10-07T21:47:42.266+03:00 Socrates advises us to 'Know Thyself' - or do we already know what we are ?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><span lang="en"><i>My
previous blog post discussed the idea of 'double ignorance' and the
essential two qualities a philosopher needs being to 'wonder' about
things and to have the curiosity to find out things when we do not
know. This blog post develops this theme with a quick look at Plato's
book: The First Alcibiades - where the question is posed: Do we
really know 'what' the human being is? This question in
Socratic philosophy is often summarised as the need for us all to
'Know Thyself'.....</i></span></span></span></span></div>
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjXADWl4eCjJi9ZQUbIE_i2IggPoLXb35z1XZ4a0_9-XdGexeiCSEJcQjZhjtjXWuyCJ9k5FCdLna79oWrzHmHkdjf8F-ZZK9wW3OpB2Ls8-k0YClaOCRyQ6LPhU0uxYHFCnZJ3xO2GP2T/s1600/Backpacker+Jan+2014+-+01.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="1197" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjXADWl4eCjJi9ZQUbIE_i2IggPoLXb35z1XZ4a0_9-XdGexeiCSEJcQjZhjtjXWuyCJ9k5FCdLna79oWrzHmHkdjf8F-ZZK9wW3OpB2Ls8-k0YClaOCRyQ6LPhU0uxYHFCnZJ3xO2GP2T/s200/Backpacker+Jan+2014+-+01.jpg" width="148" /></a></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><span lang="en"><i><br /></i></span></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 13pt;">'Socrates
points out to Alcibiades that unless we are aware (or at least have
it pointed out to us) that we do not know something, we will not try
to find out about that thing and try to correct our lack of knowledge
in that area. Socrates says, as discussed in the introduction to this
book, that we will fall into the trap of being ‘doubly ignorant’.
That is; firstly not knowing something; but secondly thinking that we
do know about it so that we do not even bother to inform ourselves
and correct this lack of knowledge. Incidentally, an ancient Oracle
(places where the future was predicted and where questions about all
sorts of things were thought to be answered by the Gods) once said,
when asked who was the wisest man alive, that it was in fact
Socrates. This confused Socrates a great deal, and the only reason he
could come up with for the Oracle’s answer was that at least he
knew he knew nothing which made him a lot wiser than the people who
thought they knew about things when clearly they did not.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">It
is no problem if we do not know something – providing we realise we
do not know. These days we consult lawyers and solicitors on legal
matters, and accountants about financial matters. We know we are not
experts in these areas and so we consult with people who are trained
and experienced with these specialist subjects. We talk to doctors
about medical matters, and mechanics about problems with our cars. It
is normal to do so and it is no big problem not to know something
providing you are aware of it and indeed admit it to yourself and
others when necessary. In modern day life we consult experts on a
whole range of subjects. Presidents and Prime Ministers have whole
teams of specialist advisors in different areas where they know they
have little or no specialist expertise or experience themselves.</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">All
simple enough so far….. Socrates has made Alcibiades admit to
himself that he lacks knowledge and experience - with politics and
affairs of State in this case. However, then Socrates goes a step
further by discussing that if we are going to teach ‘ourselves’
about things or otherwise look after ourselves wisely (i.e. make the
best Life Choices for ourselves), then we better have some
understanding at least of what ‘the self’ actually is, and this
is truly what ‘Knowing Thyself’ is all about. Socrates agrees
that you have to know where you are before starting a philosophical
path (or any other path); but he says it is also important to know
‘what you are’, and this is what it truly means to Know Thyself
in the Socratic sense. Socrates is asking:</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">How
can we look after something well (including ourselves) if we do not
even know what it is?</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">So
what does Socrates say ‘the self’ is; or in other words: what
kind of creatures are we? Well he discusses with Alcibiades that
there is obviously a difference between someone taking care of their
shoes and taking care of their feet. He says that the shoes are
merely added on to the feet and are not the actual feet them self.
Similarly, he mentions that rings are merely added on to the hands
and are not the hands or indeed the actual person themselves.
Alcibiades agrees as Socrates explains by asking him more short
questions to answer. Socrates then points out that there is a
difference between the tools a craftsman uses, such as a shoemaker
using a knife to cut the leather, and the shoemaker himself. In the
same way the musical instrument the musician uses is different to the
actual musician who again only makes use of the instrument. Such
things are only used by the 'self' and Socrates wants Alcibiades to
understand the distinction between the person them self and the
things he or she merely uses. Of course Alcibiades agrees to these
examples, and this may all seem very obvious to us and perhaps
unnecessary for Socrates to explain to Alcibiades. However, Socrates
is creating universals or universal principles and truths in his
young student’s mind. Socrates is getting Alcibiades to follow his
path of logic and the steps of his argument one step at a time,
almost like a geometric mathematical proof. (Perhaps this is another
reason why Plato wrote those strange words above the entrance to his
Academy?)</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">Socrates
then makes the distinction between the eyes and hands that a
shoemakers or musician makes use of compared to the shoemaker and
musician themselves. Alcibiades agrees that the shoemaker and
musician merely use their hands and eyes but that they are not
actually the shoemaker or musician. He goes on to explain that this
is the same with the arms, legs, feet, etc. that while they are used
by the musician and the shoemaker they are not the actual musician or
shoemaker themselves; they are just added on to whatever the musician
or shoemaker actually is ‘in essence’ and are merely used by
them. Let me now quote direct from Plato's dialogue what comes next
(First Alcibiades-129c/d):</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
But the tool is not the same as the cutter and user of the tool?</i></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
Of course not.</i></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
And in the same way the instrument of the harper (musician) is to be
distinguished from the harper himself?</i></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
It is.</i></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
Now the question which I asked was whether you conceive the user to
be always different from that which he uses</i></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
I do.</i></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
Then what shall we say of the shoemaker? Does he cut with his tools
only or with his hands?</i></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
With his hands as well.</i></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
He uses his hands too?</i></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
Yes.</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
And does he use his eyes in cutting leather?</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
He does.</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
And we admit that the user is not the same with the things which he
uses?</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
Yes.</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
Then the shoemaker and the harper are to be distinguished from the
hands and feet which they use?</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
Clearly.</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
And does not a man use the whole body?</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
Certainly.</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
And that which uses is different from that which is used?</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
True.</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
Then a man is not the same as his own body</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
That is the inference. </i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>SOCRATES:
What is he, then? </i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;"><span style="color: black;"><i>ALCIBIADES:
I cannot say. [i.e. I don't know... ]</i></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">Just
notice that as soon as Alcibiades says: 'I cannot say' or 'I don't
know' he suddenly ceases to be doubly ignorant on this matter. He had
always assumed that he at least knew what he was - and so had not
thought about it much. Socrates with his questions has suddenly made
him realise that he does not really know 'what' he is, and that it is
something he needs to investigate and think about from now on.'</span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 13pt;">From
Essay 1 of James’ new book ‘Life Choice – Important Tips From
Socrates, Plato and Aristotle’ (p. 25 – 27)</span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">See
paperback at:<a href="https://www.createspace.com/6627322"> https://www.createspace.com/6627322</a></span></span></span></div>
<div align="JUSTIFY" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
</div>
<div align="LEFT" style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: 0.4cm;">
<span style="color: black;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">See
eBook at: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540552624%20%C2%A0">https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540552624 </a></span></span></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0Athens, Greece37.9838096 23.72753880000004837.8836966 23.566177300000046 38.0839226 23.888900300000049tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-82866808237172052472016-12-24T15:18:00.000+02:002016-12-24T15:18:01.120+02:00Avoiding 'Double Ignorance' & With Practical Philosophy Action Must Follow Investigation<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<i><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-bidi-font-family: Georgia; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;">In order to make up our own minds on various issues we must of course first
‘wonder’ about these things in the first place, but then secondly, we must have
sufficient curiosity to find out why things are the way they are. Only if we
really know what fairness, honesty, and goodness actually are can we make an
informed decision about them. Of course,
we will not find out about these and other things if we already think we know
all the answers to everything; we will remain what Socrates describes as
‘doubly ignorant’; that is; not knowing something – but thinking that we do and
therefore not bothering to find out what something really is, or what are the
correct answers in a particular situation. <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-layout-grid-align: none; mso-pagination: none; text-align: justify; text-autospace: none; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<i><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-bidi-font-family: Georgia; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;">Traditional Socratic (+ Platonic and Aristotelian) philosophy is also very
much a practical subject and not just an intellectual pursuit. It is certainly
not the sole preserve of university academics and their students. Philosophy is
much too important to be left in just a few hands - it is something that we all
need to be engaged with. For example, Aristotle (the student of Plato who was
the student of Socrates) asks what would be the point of us just being wiser
intellectually if it was not going to improve our lives (as individuals or various
communities) and make us happier and better people on a practical level in the
real world. A simple modern example is the Board or management meetings that
many commercial companies and other organisations have regularly to discuss
things like what went well in the previous months, and what could be done
better in the months ahead. Well there is absolutely no point in having such
meetings unless some of the ideas on how to improve things in the months ahead
are implemented after the meeting – or at least efforts are made to implement
them whether successful or not. There would be absolutely no point in having a
Board or management meeting otherwise.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<i><span lang="EN" style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-ansi-language: EN; mso-bidi-font-family: Georgia; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;">Socratic philosophy is concerned with many practical areas of our daily
lives but three main areas of philosophic discussion or investigation can
usually be identified. Firstly, there is the consideration of what ‘the good
life’ actually is and how to lead it on a personal level. Metaphorically
speaking this can be thought of as looking inwards at ourselves. Secondly, there is the investigation of good
politics and society for the best life possible of our communities and
societies, almost looking outwards towards other people and society at large.
Thirdly, there is the investigation of the divine and spiritual (metaphysical)
areas that many people often associate with philosophy; how did I get here, and
where I am going; is there a God or a heaven? We can think of these types of
questions and investigations as looking ‘upwards’…….<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<br /></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b><i><span style="font-family: "Georgia",serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">From
the introduction of James’ new paper version of his book ‘Life Choice –
Important Tips From Socrates, Plato and Aristotle’ (p.8)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-63415924217712562002016-04-13T22:21:00.000+03:002017-10-07T22:01:03.693+03:00Thrasymachus calls Socrates a fool in Plato’s Republic - Is He Right ?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div style="line-height: 115%; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm; text-align: justify; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
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<b><i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;">Thrasymachus calls Socrates a
fool in Plato’s Republic for not approving of corrupt politicians] Is
Thrasymachus right? Comments welcome below…..</span></i></b><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;"> <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;">
<br /></div>
<div style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;">Near the beginning of<span class="apple-converted-space"><i> </i></span><i>The Republic</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>around lines 343 b / c
Thrasymachus says:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<br /></div>
<div style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;">
‘You fool, Socrates, don’t you see? In any and every situation, a
moral person is worse off than an immoral one. Suppose, for instance, that
they’re doing some business together, which involves one of them entering into
association with the other: by the time the association is dissolved, you’ll
never find the moral person up on the immoral one— he’ll be worse off. Or
again, in civic matters, if there’s a tax on property,* then a moral person
pays more tax than an immoral one even when they’re both equally well off; and
if there’s a hand-out, then the one gets nothing, while the other makes a lot.
And when each of them holds political office,* even if a moral person loses out
financially in no other way, his personal affairs deteriorate through neglect,
while his morality stops him making any profit from public funds, and moreover
his family and friends fall out with him over his refusal to help them out in
unfair ways; in all these respects, however, an immoral person’s experience is
the opposite.<o:p></o:p></span><o:p></o:p></i></div>
<div style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;">344a
‘I’m talking about the person I described a short while ago, the one with the
power to secure huge advantages for himself. This is the person you should
consider, if you want to assess the extent to which immorality rather than
morality is personally advantageous— and this is something you’ll appreciate
most easily if you look at immorality in its most perfect form and see how it
enhances a wrongdoer’s life beyond measure, but ruins the lives of his victims,
who haven’t the stomach for crime, to the same degree. It’s dictatorship I
mean, because whether it takes stealth or overt violence, a dictator steals
what doesn’t belong to him— consecrated and unconsecrated objects, private
possessions, and public property— and does so not on a small scale, but
comprehensively.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
<div style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;">Anyone
who is caught committing the merest fraction of these crimes is not only
punished, but thoroughly stigmatized as well: small-scale criminals who commit
these kinds of crimes are called temple-robbers,* kidnappers, burglars,
thieves, and robbers. On the other hand, when someone appropriates the assets
of the citizen body and then goes on to rob them of their very freedom and
enslave them, then denigration gives way to congratulation, and it isn’t only
his fellow citizens who call him happy, but anyone else who hears about his
consummate wrongdoing does so as well. The point is that immorality has a bad
name because people are afraid of being at the receiving end of it, not of
doing it.<span class="apple-converted-space"> <o:p></o:p></span></span><o:p></o:p></i></div>
<br />
<div style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 22.7pt;">
<i><span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif;">(344
b c) ‘So you see, Socrates, immorality— if practised on a large
enough scale— has more power, licence, and authority than morality. And as I
said at the beginning, morality is really the advantage of the stronger party,
while immorality is profitable and advantageous to oneself. '<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
</div>
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-58016572753179156482015-10-31T12:04:00.000+02:002017-10-07T22:09:32.249+03:00Diotima on Love - Extracts<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">From Plato’s book; <i>The Symposium (The Drinking Party)<o:p></o:p></i></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><i><br /></i></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Several speakers give a short speech
saying what they think love is; and then finally Socrates says what he thinks
love is. His speech includes the speech of the mysterious wise woman Diotima
who instructs Socrates in love when he was a young man. Below is an extract
from Diotima’s wise words.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">Then Diotima says to Socrates:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">'These are the lesser mysteries
of love, into which even you, Socrates, may enter; to the greater and more
hidden ones which are the crown of these, and to which, if you pursue them in a
right spirit, they will lead, I know not whether you will be able to attain.
But I will do my utmost to inform you, and do you follow if you can. For he who
would proceed aright in this matter should begin in youth to visit beautiful
forms; and first, if he be guided by his instructor aright, to love one such
form only—out of that he should create fair thoughts; and soon he will of
himself perceive that the beauty of one form is akin to the beauty of another;
and then if beauty of form in general is his pursuit, how foolish would he be
not to recognize that the beauty in every form is and the same! And when he
perceives this he will abate his violent love of the one, which he will despise
and deem a small thing, and will become a lover of all beautiful forms; in the
next stage he will consider that the beauty of the mind is more honourable than
the beauty of the outward form. So that if a virtuous soul have but a little
comeliness, he will be content to love and tend him, and will search out and
bring to the birth thoughts which may improve the young, until he is compelled
to contemplate and see the beauty of institutions and laws, and to understand
that the beauty of them all is of one family, and that personal beauty is a
trifle; and after laws and institutions he will go on to the sciences, that he
may see their beauty, being not like a servant in love with the beauty of one
youth or man or institution, himself a slave mean and narrow-minded, but
drawing towards and contemplating the vast sea of beauty, he will create many
fair and noble thoughts and notions in boundless love of wisdom; until on that
shore he grows and waxes strong, and at last the vision is revealed to him of a
single science, which is the science of beauty everywhere. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">To this I will proceed; please to
give me your very best attention: 'He who has been instructed thus far in the
things of love, and who has learned to see the beautiful in due order and
succession, when he comes toward the end will suddenly perceive a nature of
wondrous beauty (and this, Socrates, is the final cause of all our former
toils)—a nature which in the first place is everlasting, not growing and
decaying, or waxing and waning; secondly, not fair in one point of view and
foul in another, or at one time or in one relation or at one place fair, at
another time or in another relation or at another place foul, as if fair to
some and foul to others, or in the likeness of a face or hands or any other
part of the bodily frame, or in any form of speech or knowledge, or existing in
any other being, as for example, in an animal, or in heaven, or in earth, or in
any other place; but beauty absolute, separate, simple, and everlasting, which
without diminution and without increase, or any change, is imparted to the
ever-growing and perishing beauties of all other things. He who from these
ascending under the influence of true love, begins to perceive that beauty, is
not far from the end. And the true order of going, or being led by another, to
the things of love, is to begin from the beauties of earth and mount upwards
for the sake of that other beauty, using these as steps only, and from one
going on to two, and from two to all fair forms, and from fair forms to fair
practices, and from fair practices to fair notions, until from fair notions he
arrives at the notion of absolute beauty, and at last knows what the essence of
beauty is. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;">
<span style="font-family: "georgia" , serif; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;">This, my dear Socrates,' said the
stranger of Mantineia, 'is that life above all others which man should live, in
the contemplation of beauty absolute; a beauty which if you once beheld, you would
see not to be after the measure of gold, and garments, and fair youths, whose presence now entrances you; and you and many a one would be
content to live seeing them only and conversing with them without meat or
drink, if that were possible—you only want to look at them and to be with them.
But what if man had eyes to see the true beauty—the divine beauty, I mean, pure
and clear and unalloyed, not clogged with the pollutions of mortality and all
the colours and vanities of human life—thither looking, and holding converse
with the true beauty simple and divine? Remember how in that communion only,
beholding beauty with the eye of the mind, he will be enabled to bring forth,
not images of beauty, but realities (for he has hold not of an image but of a
reality), and bringing forth and nourishing true virtue to become the friend of
God and be immortal, if mortal man may. Would that be an ignoble life?'<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7448765292043852871.post-41039176239265493522013-06-14T11:37:00.002+03:002017-10-07T21:58:39.659+03:00Rather A Question of Different Layers of Reality.....<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "georgia" , "times new roman" , serif;">Last night in bed I tried to look down the “Delphic” or spiritual tunnel a little..... and reminded myself that if we are to be philosophers ourselves in Plato’s truest sense of the word – then we must have our own opinions and ideas about things – based on what seems most probable. It is not enough for us just to know the opinions of others – even if those others include great names like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. <br /><br />With the above in mind I would like to suggest how to improve / add to / or modernise Plato's vision of reality with his unseen and superior world of ideas or forms is. I would suggest that it is more correct to say now that it is not a question of there being another reality at the end of the tunnel to the cave let's say.... and that our reality – that which we perceive with our senses is false and inferior. After all, those prisoners really do see images on the wall of the cave – and there situation would be real to them. It seems to me that it is more a question of there being "additional" realities to the one we currently live and exist in and are familiar with. There are it seems different layers of reality...... which includes our own familiar one; although there are other realities as yet to be scientifically discovered or otherwise fully explained.<br /><br />I am not sure this following example helps to understand my point – so let’s see. I was thinking about some goats quietly grazing on the gentle grassy slopes of Delphi. The goats all know there is a kind shepherd who takes them for a nice walk in the sunshine each morning – and makes sure they all get home safely as night. The shepherd – a pacifist let’s say – enjoys his work and takes good care of his goats which he has all given individual names for and treats kindly. Clearly, the goats do not realise at all that the shepherd is actually feeding them up for slaughter. The shepherd does not like to think about the slaughter too much and just gets on with his peaceful work. Now it just so happens that after the slaughter of the goats – the meat is sold in market – and goes via one agent and then another to feed “coalition” UN soldiers in Afghanistan who are targeting drones to drop missiles on terrorists. Obviously, neither goat or shepherd – or probably chap at the local meat market know anything about this bigger reality. The point is – we can all think up quick examples where the reality of something is a rather bigger picture than what seems apparent to us the viewer or listener with a limited view on things. <br /><br />Man has traditionally seen himself as a very important part of the universe, indeed very often the most important part. He has therefore traditionally given himself a central place in that universe. In this universe all the stars went around planet earth where the human being dominated and ruled the world. We can only guess at the impact and uneasy mind shift created when Galileo said the planets all go around the sun - and that our sun was just one of thousands of similar stars in the galaxy and universe.<br /><br />Although we "know" differently now, we still like to act sometimes in the old way. When that first flag was planted on the North Pole, the South Pole, the top of Everest, and even on the Moon, was there not a feeling of "this is now ours" to own and exploit as we wish..... I guess that although science is telling us differently - we still like to give ourselves central importance and rulers of the universe status. Perhaps most of us tend to do this sub-consciously unless we are careful not too. It is after all – a very comforting and secure view of the universe even if we know it just is not so. <br /><br />I talked just now about an 'additional' reality or layers of reality rather than simply a different reality to the one we regard as "true" as Plato suggests. This view is actually being supported by science some people may find uncomfortable to hear. This view of layers of reality does not ignore the ideas of science and logic and what we already know to be true. Top scientists from cosmology already know that what we see is only a small minority part of what there is out there in the universe. And when we use the word see - what we really mean is see and therefore can comprehend..... because for the most part still..... unless people can actually see something with their own eyes then they find it difficult to believe in its existence..... or more accurately are unable to comprehend its existence.....<br /><br />Scientists vary in opinion on what the proportion of this so called dark (unseen – not comprehended) matter might be. I am going to use the term "unknown universe" for the not comprehended and unseen universe of which dark matter forms only a part..... and I will tell you why I prefer this term and way of thinking in a moment. Optimistic scientists - that is those who think we know a lot about what is going on in the universe say that the dark matter (part of my unknown universe) is only 65% of reality and we can see and understand the other 35%. The general view of the scientific community though is that it may be 80% of unknown universe to 20% that we do know - and remember the tendency is to think or say that we know a bit more than we do...... So what happens if the pessimistic scientists are right and what we see or know is not 20% but 2% or 0.002% If this is the case then how much will we really know for sure... And readers know this, that from a few years from before Galileo when we thought we saw (and therefore assumed we knew 100%) we have steadily been realising – in spite of great technical advances and scientific discoveries - that we know less and less about what's out there..... or rather what the whole of our reality actually is. Like I say.... the current general consensus is that we know 15-20% or so of what is there..... but that figure is falling not rising as one would expect.<br /><br />Now - seeing is believing - or so our consciousness’s are mostly limited to believing. And modern technology has given us new abilities to view the very big - that is the universe; and the very small - that is the mysteries of the quantum world of particle physics. Let's stick to the very big for the purposes of the rest of this short blog. We have fantastic telescopes these days compared to Galileo; the Hubble for example is out there in orbit staring into space - and this is becoming out of date fast. We have radio telescopes, infrared telescopes, and a whole range of telescopes "looking" at things in a way our eyes alone could never do using different light and energy wavelengths that our eyes (and ears) could never pick up by themselves. Actually, our equipment today covers the whole spectrum of light - and yet we are still not seeing - even by optimistic scientific predictions - this 85% of the universe.<br /><br />What is the above telling us? Well, firstly it could be telling us quite simply that this extra "stuff" is not there and does not exist – and that simply – is why we cannot see it. This is more important than it sounds - since it would mean that all the calculations that predicted the existence of dark matter are flawed (to put it politely) and that we really have no idea what's going on at all. Alternatively, and I think more likely, it is telling us that all this other stuff - let's say 80+ % just cannot be seen in the usual way we see things - and that it most likely never will. But; it is still there as the mathematical calculations support. The scientists tell us it is there after all; they 'expect' us to believe that 80+ % of the universe is there although it cannot be seen - with any light wavelength viewing equipment – which means that we are never likely to see it in the way we normally think of as “seeing” things.<br />We as philosophers are therefore now obliged to propose, summarise, or guess what that 85% of the unknown universe is - and suggest why it is that way..... and also suggest ways that might help us understand it - even if we must now accept that even with all these telescopes - we will NEVER actually see it. Yet, the scientists and calculations tell us to believe it.....<br /><br />For philosophers, or those true philosophers according to Plato, this is where the mind comes into play..... or rather our consciousness..... or for spiritual people like me perhaps where the soul comes into play. <br /><br /><i><b>If not additional layers of reality - then what do you propose instead ?</b></i></span></span><br />
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