Socrates 4 Today: Text for Talk - 'Know Yourself'

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About The 'Socrates 4 Today' Project

Whether we like it or not, we all have important Life Choices to make, and these choices are largely ‘philosophical’ in nature. Knowing about some of the ideas of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle can help us all make more informed life choices today and live happier and more fulfilled lives as a result.

The Socrates 4 Today project is not an official group or institution of any kind, but rather an umbrella banner for a loose collection of friends (and occasionally friendly organisations) to carry out philosophy related activities. These friends all share the idea that the ancient (yet living) ‘real’ philosophy and wisdom of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle has relevance and importance for us all today.

While some of these friends might enjoy a more academic approach to this philosophy personally, they all share the view that philosophy is essentially a ‘practical’ subject, and is something to be applied to the way we live our lives – not just read about in a book. (Even Plato himself says, there is only so much you can learn about philosophy from a book!) Hence, there will be some blog posts about ‘practical philosophy’ projects along with the usual posts about the ideas of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle.

It is hoped that the Socrates 4 Today Project will help to make some of the central ideas and themes of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and some of the other Greek philosophers more relevant to a wider modern audience. ‘Real’ philosophy after all is said and done – is simply about giving people important tips for living a better, happier and more meaningful life. It is about making better and more informed Life Choices today, and trying to live wisely……

Saturday 30 May 2020

Text for Talk - 'Know Yourself' - Gnothi Sayton

Text for talk 'Know Yourself'

‘Know Yourself’

'Extracts' from Plato’s First Alcibiades

(Translated by Benjamin Jowett 1817 – 1893)

(From Apx 129a) [Context – Socrates has been talking about the shoes on our feet and rings on our finger not being the actual person ‘themselves’…]

SOCRATES: Then in taking care of what belongs to you, you do not take care of yourself?

ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.

SOCRATES: For the art which takes care of our belongings appears not to be the same as that which takes care of ourselves?

ALCIBIADES: Clearly not.

SOCRATES: And now let me ask you what is the art with which we take care of ourselves?

ALCIBIADES: I cannot say.

SOCRATES: At any rate, thus much has been admitted, that the art is not one which makes

any of our possessions, but which makes ourselves better?

ALCIBIADES: True.

SOCRATES: But should we ever have known what art makes a shoe better, if we did not know a shoe?

ALCIBIADES: Impossible.

SOCRATES: Nor should we know what art makes a ring better, if we did not know a ring?

ALCIBIADES: That is true.

SOCRATES: And can we ever know what art makes a man better, if we do not know what we are ourselves?

ALCIBIADES: Impossible.

SOCRATES: And is self-knowledge such an easy thing, and was he to be lightly esteemed who inscribed the text on the temple at Delphi? Or is self-knowledge a difficult thing, which few are able to attain?

ALCIBIADES: At times I fancy, Socrates, that anybody can know himself; at other times the task appears to be very difficult.

SOCRATES: But whether easy or difficult, Alcibiades, still there is no other way; knowing what we are, we shall know how to take care of ourselves, and if we are ignorant we shall not know.

ALCIBIADES: That is true.

SOCRATES: Well, then, let us see in what way the self-existent can be discovered by us; that will give us a chance of discovering our own existence, which otherwise we can never know.

ALCIBIADES: You say truly.

SOCRATES: Come, now, I beseech you, tell me with whom you are conversing?—with whom but with me?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: As I am, with you?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: That is to say, I, Socrates, am talking?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: And Alcibiades is my hearer?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: And I in talking use words?

ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

SOCRATES: And talking and using words have, I suppose, the same meaning?

ALCIBIADES: To be sure.

SOCRATES: And the user is not the same as the thing which he uses?

ALCIBIADES: What do you mean?

SOCRATES: I will explain; the shoemaker, for example, uses a square tool, and a circular tool, and other tools for cutting?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: But the tool is not the same as the cutter and user of the tool?

ALCIBIADES: Of course not.

SOCRATES: And in the same way the instrument of the harper is to be distinguished from

the harper himself?

ALCIBIADES: It is.

SOCRATES: Now the question which I asked was whether you conceive the user to be always different from that which he uses?

ALCIBIADES: I do.

SOCRATES: Then what shall we say of the shoemaker? Does he cut with his tools only or with his hands?

ALCIBIADES: With his hands as well.

SOCRATES: He uses his hands too?

[From apx First Alcibiades-129 c ]

SOCRATES [Talking about the shoemaker…]: And does he use his eyes in cutting leather?

ALCIBIADES: He does.

SOCRATES: And we admit that the user is not the same with the things which he uses?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: Then the shoemaker and the harper are to be distinguished from the hands and feet which they use?

ALCIBIADES: Clearly.

SOCRATES: And does not a man use the whole body?

ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

SOCRATES: And that which uses is different from that which is used?

ALCIBIADES: True.

SOCRATES: Then a man is not the same as his own body?

ALCIBIADES: That is the inference.

SOCRATES: What is he, then?

ALCIBIADES: I cannot say. I do not know.

---------

SOCRATES: Nay, you can say that he is the user of the body.

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: And the user of the body is the soul? [….. or simply X Factor / psyche ]

ALCIBIADES: Yes, the soul.

SOCRATES: And the soul rules?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: Let me make an assertion which will, I think, be universally admitted.

ALCIBIADES: What is it?

SOCRATES: That man is one of three things.

ALCIBIADES: What are they?

SOCRATES: Soul, body, or both together forming a whole.

ALCIBIADES: Certainly.

SOCRATES: But did we not say that the actual ruling principle of the body is man?

ALCIBIADES: Yes, we did.

SOCRATES: And does the body rule over itself?

ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.

SOCRATES: It is subject, as we were saying?

ALCIBIADES: Yes.

SOCRATES: Then that is not the principle which we are seeking?

ALCIBIADES: It would seem not.

SOCRATES: But may we say that the union of the two rules over the body, and

consequently that this is man?

ALCIBIADES: Very likely.

SOCRATES: The most unlikely of all things; for if one of the members is subject, the two united cannot possibly rule.

(end of extract)

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Live Links List for Paperback Readers of ‘Life Choices (New Edition 2019) - Important Tips from Socrates, Plato and Aristotle

Links:

1. The Socrates 4 Today Blog - With articles / information / further links to podcasts, and a ‘live version’ of this list of links for you to click.

www.socrates4today.blogspot.gr

2. Informal Talks / Walks in Athens with James

www.meetup.com/Athens-Philosophy-Talks-Walks-and-Discussions-with-James

3. New Acropolis Museum, Athens

www.theacropolismuseum.gr/en

4. Marinus’ Affectionate Essay on the Life of His Teacher Proclus – aka ‘On Happiness’

www.jameslongerstuff.blogspot.gr

5. Delphi Archaeological Museum

www.e-delphi.gr

6. Disaster at the Clothing Factory in Samar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Savar_building_collapse

7. Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders)

www.doctorswithoutborders.org

8. Companions for that Long Voyage – Blogpost

http://jamesphilosophicalagora.blogspot.com/2011/05/companions-for-that-long-voyage-know.html

9. New Acropolis Philosophical Organisation. This is the link for the London group but they have groups all over the world.

www.newacropolisuk.org

10. The Prometheus Trust with various resources to download including: Hermeas’ Commentary on The Phaedrus

www.prometheustrust.co.uk/html/files_to_download.html

11. ‘Aristotle’ by Dr A E Taylor

http://store.doverpublications.com/0486202801.html

12. Diotima on Love – Extracts from Symposium:

www.socrates4today.blogspot.com/2015/10/diotima-on-love-extracts.html

13. Movie trailer for ‘The Big Short’ that describes some of the problems leading up to the 2008 global economic crisis:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWr8hbUkG9s

14. Practical Philosophy - Environment – Having the option at least to refill plastic waters bottles:

www.socrates4today.blogspot.com/2018/12/environment-water-bottles-refill-option.html

15. The Population and Sustainability Network (PSN) is the international programme of the Margaret Pyke Trust. (Registered UK Charity No: 1064672) PSN is a group led by volunteer London doctors from their own offices. All money donated to PSN goes to the intended purpose, unlike many ‘organisations’ with expensive staffs and offices. PSN works to advance the understanding of the relationships between population, health and sustainable development issues; and promotes integrated approaches to help solve these interconnected challenges. PSN also advocates the empowerment of women, family planning and sex education. I believe that future generations will be grateful that we ‘started’ to investigate the ideas of a ‘sustainable global population’ and ‘moderate and real sustainable living’ at the start of the 21^stcentury – as population now rapidly approaches 7.5 billion people; many of whom will have greater expectations in terms of ‘stuff’ that they want than any previous generation since Socrates’ time. (Keep in mind that the upper estimate for the global population just 200 years ago was only 1.125 billion!)

http://populationandsustainability.org

16. PRAXSIS is an independent Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) whose main goal is the design, application and implementation of humanitarian programs and medical interventions in Athens and other parts of Greece. It is inspiring to see their small fleet of ambulances parked on street corners, largely staffed by young volunteers, providing basic medical care and support for those most in need.

www.praksis.gr/en/about-praksis

Life Choices: Some Recommended Further Reading:

1. ‘Aristotle’ by Dr A. E. Taylor for an excellent and succinct overview of Aristotle’s main areas of study and writing. Alfred Edward Taylor (1869 – 1945) was a fellow of the British Academy (1911) and president of the Aristotelian Society from 1928 to 1929. At Oxford he was made an honorary fellow of New College in 1931.

2. Plato’s Book The Symposium(The Drinking Party) which concerns a number of speakers at a party each giving a talk on the subject of love. Socrates gives one of these speeches which includes within it the wise words of Diotima, a mysterious older woman who instructs Socrates in his youth about love. Diotima also describes a ‘philosophical’ progression in love; which is relevant to the ‘path of the philosopher’. There is an extract available on the Socrates 4 Today Blog (See links list.

3. Plutarch (46 to 120 CE – and not the latter Neo Platonist ‘Plutarch of Athens’) wrote two works still extant, the well-known Lives, and the lesser known Moraliaconsisting of 26 easily read, informative, succinct and entertaining essays on various aspects of ordinary life. The Moralia is very recommended for those seeking to be ‘real’ philosophers. For example, one of these essays is simply titled: ‘How one may be aware of one's progress in virtue’. This amusing essay is full of sensible down to earth tips for young travellers, new philosophers, and older searchers – since one’s progress in virtue is synonymous with one’s progress in ‘real’ philosophy. You may wish to download this book of essays from Amazon at: www.amazon.com/dp/B0082W83DOWhether you read the book or not, remember Plutarch’s important tip: ‘’Furthermore, take care, in reading the writings of philosophers or hearing their speeches that you do not attend to words more than things, nor get attracted more by what is difficult and curious than by what is serviceable and solid and useful.’There is another essay which suggests that friendships do not just have to be defined as sexual or non-sexual – but there is a third way – the sacred.

4. Plotinus (204 to 270 CE) the ‘early’ Neo Platonist was an accomplished philosopher in his on right and often has many charming Platonic echoes in his writings. He is straightforward and understandable. For example, his Essay (Treatise) On the Beautifulfinishes with several useful practical tips on how to make our own lives and actions more beautiful. (www.amazon.com/Essay-Beautiful-Greek-Plotinus-ebook/dp/B0082UI87W )

5. Perhaps try the considerable and varied resources of: The Prometheus Trust. For example, you can download extracts from ‘Hermeas’ commentary on The Phaedrus’ if you want to go deeper into this particular Platonic dialogue. There are also a number of short articles and succinct essays available to download. (See links list.)

6. There is a blog Socrates 4 Today (see links list) where I try to provide important extracts and pieces for people exploring Socrates, Plato and Aristotle more – but with limited time to read longer books cover to cover.

7. The Emperor's New Mind: Concerning Computers, Minds, and the Laws of Physics by eminent mathematician and theoretical physicist Roger Penrose. (2016 Oxford Landmark Science) This is definitely a book for more mathematically minded readers as it discusses the limitations of algorithms (the things that basically make computers function) to perform certain tasks. Mr. Penrose therefore suggests Artificial Intelligence (A.I.) will never be able to match human intelligence on certain things, especially where intuition is required. He also states openly his belief in the ‘Platonic reality’ (of Ideas and Forms] of ‘some’ mathematical ideas, and gives his scientific reasoning for this. This open minded approach, spiced with regular intellectual humility throughout his book, is most refreshing from a scientist of such great stature and influence as Mr. Penrose. There is also a fascinating observation made that all computers of given standard can run the same software programs on them, and there is not much to distinguish between the individual ‘hardware’. This prompts us to consider whether it is the same with human bodies and brains which are also all pretty similar in structure.

Why not spend 2 or 3 days in Delphi …. instead of just taking a day trip from Athens? Delphi in ancient times was considered the centre of the known world and was the spiritual centre of Greece. This was the place on earth where the human being could be as close to the Gods as it was possible to get. Many people say that even today Delphi has very special and positive ‘vibes’ and energy; and that is why it is a good idea to spend a relaxing 2 or 3 days there rather than just a rushed and sweaty 2 or 3 hours there like most ‘day trippers’ do who come from Athens for the day.

For most day trippers the two main things to think about when they get to Delphi is where to get some lunch and what time the bus is leaving to go back to Athens. If you come to Delphi for 2 or 3 days – you have time to think about a whole different bunch of stuff and enjoy the spectacular natural environment here; and soak up the special positive vibes and energy of this small friendly town. For More Info Click: '3 Days In Delphi' ) or click on the image below:

What’s the Purpose of ‘real’ Greek Philosophy? Is it some kind of Religion?

This is a very normal question for people to ask when they begin to study ‘real’ Greek philosophy. Greek Philosophy (or rather the questions and ideas discussed in this philosophy) is of interest to people from many different religions – or no religion at all. The philosophy is about the love and admiration of all that is real, good and true. It’s about examining the world around us and making better and more informed practical choices for our own lives. Its about examining ‘preferable ways of living’.

The ‘Socrates 4 Today’ Project aims to provide information on various topics from Socratic philosophy which are hopefully succinct, interesting and thought provoking. This information can be shared in various formats – such as face to face talks and discussions, blogs, books, Skype sessions, theatre, music, or however this very informal network of like minded friends decides to share their own personal enthusiasm for Socratic philosophy.

It is hoped that this umbrella project will help to make some of the central ideas and themes of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and the other Greek philosophers more relevant to a wider modern audience. Philosophy after all is said and done – is simply about giving people tips on living a happier and more fulfilling life….

For further details about the current and future projects of the Socrates 4 Today network contact: socrates4today@gmail.com

Remember the Delphi Message (the two Delphi Maxims): ‘Know Yourself’ and ‘Live Moderately and Sustainably’

Socrates says that to start any path we must first know where we are, who we are, and according to Socrates at least: ‘what we are’. (Ref: Plato – First Alcibiades)

In ancient times, the Delphi Messages of 'Know Yourself' and 'Live Moderately’ were inscribed above the entrance to the Temple of Apollo in Delphi. They are two of the central pillars of our Western civilisation..... and very important for us all to understand just a little better.

Are You a Philosopher?

If you ‘wonder’ about things and have the curiosity to find out when your do not know something then you are a philosopher. Philosophy is simply the love of wisdom and trying to make ourselves a little bit wiser as we go through life. However, we will not search for wisdom in a range of topics and areas unless we have enough curiosity to find things out: 'to wonder I suppose'.

By clicking onto this website and similar ones; by reading books on the various subjects raised; attending some lectures from time to time, or simply by just thinking about things and talking to your friends about various important subjects you start to become philosophers as well.

The only other thing that you really need to be a philosopher is to keep an open mind on various subjects when you start to consider them. We must also accept that sometimes we do not know all the answers – and should therefore need to investigate a subject a little further.

Socrates said that: ‘….the un-investigated life is not worth living’.

More details of this embryonic project will be posted on this blog as they develop. It is envisaged that this project will start as a ‘summer school’ where people can come for a few days, or a week or two at different times of the year; perhaps during the academic holidays or while ‘travelling’. Over time it is hoped more and more friends of ‘real’ Greek philosophy will pass through the The Little Academy of Athens, and as a result, shine more brightly and consistently in their own part of the world.

About James Head

James Head was born and educated in the UK; and has an honours degree in education from Exeter University. For many years he has been a committed philosopher, and his life now revolves around sharing 'real' Greek philosophy with others. He regularly speaks and writes on the essential ideas of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. James has lived in Greece for many years, mainly in Ancient Delphi where he feels philosophically and 'spiritually' at home. These days he divides his time between Delphi, Athens and London.