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About The 'Socrates 4 Today' Project

Whether we like it or not, we all have important Life Choices to make, and these choices are largely ‘philosophical’ in nature. Knowing about some of the ideas of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle can help us all make more informed life choices today and live happier and more fulfilled lives as a result.

The Socrates 4 Today project is not an official group or institution of any kind, but rather an umbrella banner for a loose collection of friends (and occasionally friendly organisations) to carry out philosophy related activities. These friends all share the idea that the ancient (yet living) ‘real’ philosophy and wisdom of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle has relevance and importance for us all today.

While some of these friends might enjoy a more academic approach to this philosophy personally, they all share the view that philosophy is essentially a ‘practical’ subject, and is something to be applied to the way we live our lives – not just read about in a book. (Even Plato himself says, there is only so much you can learn about philosophy from a book!) Hence, there will be some blog posts about ‘practical philosophy’ projects along with the usual posts about the ideas of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle.

It is hoped that the Socrates 4 Today Project will help to make some of the central ideas and themes of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and some of the other Greek philosophers more relevant to a wider modern audience. ‘Real’ philosophy after all is said and done – is simply about giving people important tips for living a better, happier and more meaningful life. It is about making better and more informed Life Choices today, and trying to live wisely……

Monday 7 November 2011

Should We Be Cautious With Some of Plato’s Ideas?

Socrates and Plato - Bite Size Chunks - No 3
(Posted by James Head – Autumn 2011) 

This may sound a shocking thing to say or perhaps admit - but it is my impression after some 20 years of part time deliberation on various philosophical matters; that the secret (if there is one) of living a good and happy life is perhaps a little simpler than perhaps many great philosophers like Plato and his philosophical descendants such as Proclus make out. My reasons for saying this are as follows.... We should keep in mind that while Proclus wrote many long detailed commentaries on the dialogues of Plato (which are for sure of great interest, help and academic value for those with an interest in an in depth study of Plato and his philosophy) – that Socrates, a philosopher with no less statue or reputation than Proclus, chose to write nothing at all for a wider audience if our records are correct. 

This suggests to me – that the illusive “good” and happy life (surely a prime concern for all true philosophers who are trying to walk the path) – discussed regularly by Socrates, Plato and later Platonists like Plotinus and Proclus - may be a great deal simpler than many commentators today would have us believe. In any case, we are obliged to take a view more akin to say Proclus who wrote a great deal; or to Socrates who wrote little or nothing at all.

In my view, it is important that at a very early stage of our own exploration of – let’s call it for convenience the Socratic/Platonic philosophic tradition - be clear and sure what our motives are for our study – and readily accept that different people may by studying the texts and philosophy for various valid yet different reasons. Some (most perhaps) will be studying from an academic interest, while others like me (fewer most likely) will be studying Socrates and Plato for the simple truths they have to tell us about religious and spiritual matters and how best to live this short human existence on earth – which Socrates suggests is only a part (and a lesser part at that) of our total immortal existence. For Socrates claims that we ourselves are in fact souls (with bodies just attached) that will go on forever in one way or another – and that the most important thing to do during this short human existence is to take care of our soul’s well being; rather than worry too much about material wealth and the gratification of most bodily pleasures. Now, my point is that for the purely academic student of Socrates/Plato – this primary motive of mine just expressed will be of little interest or consequence – although of course it was of prime importance to Socrates and to a large extent his students such as Plato.

In addition to 'students' who study Socratic-Platonic philosophy primarily for “spiritual” motives like me, and those who study purely for academic purposes like perhaps most readers and commentators on the subject, there is another group of students for us to be aware of and give short consideration to. (By 'students' I mean anyone who is trying to understand the ideas of Socrates and Plato further - be they learned university Professor or teenager reading Plato for the first time.) This other group of students are those who search for wider relevance to modern life in Plato’s writing particularly on various political and social matters – including Politics, Statesmanship and how to run the “ideal” State – and how these ideas might be relevant to the affairs of a modern society like ours today. This latter group of students may be divided into two broad categories in my view; those students (like me at times) who will see a few “general” ideas or words of wisdom to keep in mind for the political and social scientists of today, whilst others will see clear literal advice and recommendations that we can deduce from Plato’s writings in his times on how we should organize and do things today. I am 'very' cautious of this last group of students of Socrates and Plato - very cautious indeed of their good sense or motivation.

I do not want to labour the above point unduly; but clearly, the various reasons and motivations for a student’s study of this detailed and widely written about and commentated upon philosophic tradition are relevant to the way the particular student goes about this study. Probably, most “students” will have several reasons for their study – but clearly these reasons will have different priorities from student to student. Speaking on a personal level - and only by way of example - while I am interested in all aspects of Socrates and Plato to a greater or lesser extent; my main priority as I have already stated is to understand the spiritual world I live in today better and what my place is in it. To quote a Delphic or Apollonian maxim I wish to “Know Myself” better – what I truly am – and what I should truly try to be in order to live the best life available to me. The benefits of various democratic political or educational systems as discussed by Plato are – although important and interesting – of secondary importance to me. 

This primary “spiritual” motivation of mine and others like me – gives us an advantage I believe when we study privately or choose to comment publicly on Socrates and Plato. For when it comes to my own spiritual beliefs and well being; and when decisions are made by me on how best to live my life; it is me who is the master of my own destiny and indeed my own “expert” and judge on my life and beliefs; as with similar like minded souls. We can agree or disagree with Socrates and Plato on these divine and spiritual matters simply on the personal feelings and beliefs we have, and this should not provoke criticism from others for so doing. However, this is not the case for those people who choose to comment on Plato’s ideas on things such as political and social science. 

Clearly, to be able to comment in some kind of serious or authoritative way on these matters we would of needed to have studied ourselves in some way the principles and core ideas of political and social science if we are to make well informed comments in this area. An obvious example is that I do not question (or feel myself able to question or comment) for the most part on the advice given by a doctor or surgeon to a friend these days since I have had no formal medical training myself. At most, I might advise the friend to get a “second opinion” from another well trained and experienced medical professional – but I am not going to start offering medical advice myself. In similar fashion, I cannot take a medical book from ancient Athens 500 B.C. and start recommending its ideas for adoption by the medical profession in the 21st century. Of course not; and it would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise.
 
Surely the above medical example suggests we should be very cautious also when reading political science or indeed any other scientifically based writing from ancient Athens and then recommending its ideas for adoption in modern times. These principles apply surely (or do they?) to political matters and matters of social science and public administration. How can I judge whether Plato’s idea and recommendations on these matters were even sound for his own world and time; let alone whether they are still good and sound and appropriate for our own time and particular place; if I do not have a sound grasp of political and social science myself ? One is entitled to disagree with this question of mine of course – but I do feel that the question is one we are obliged at least to ask ourselves if we enter the realm of recommending or otherwise Plato’s more practical and worldly ideas. A more specific example to illustrate my point is that the Athens city Plato lived in had some 20,000 “citizens’ only although the total population was perhaps as many as 200,000. Although not the biggest city at the time for sure – the Athens of Plato’s day was a big European city by anyone’s reckoning at that time. Athens today has some 5 million citizens, and London double that. Plato’s political and social ideas for Athens were based therefore on a population of just 4% of what it is today. I mention this just to highlight the difficulties of studying Plato’s “specific” political and social ideas and then simply supporting the ideas as useful or relevant today (perhaps with a spot of quick maths on certain numbers) without careful analysis by properly well qualified modern political scientists and administrators. We lovers of Plato (including even many renowned experts on his texts) can surely leave ourselves exposed to justified criticism today when we simply recommend Plato’s ideas in these areas as having merit today when we ourselves may have little or no experience in political science, politics, social science, political administration or even party politics which allows the opportunity to implement any political idea - good or bad.

Some readers of this piece (perhaps most) may not agree with me on this; but I hope that most readers will at least except that the danger I have mentioned with commenting on these areas of Plato “as relevant or useful for our modern times” could and might exist. It might therefore be better therefore for us to keep to the more “general” ideas and advice that Socrates and Plato gave us in these matters.

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Live Links List for Paperback Readers of ‘Life Choices (New Edition 2019) - Important Tips from Socrates, Plato and Aristotle

Links:

1. The Socrates 4 Today Blog - With articles / information / further links to podcasts, and a ‘live version’ of this list of links for you to click.

www.socrates4today.blogspot.gr

2. Informal Talks / Walks in Athens with James

www.meetup.com/Athens-Philosophy-Talks-Walks-and-Discussions-with-James

3. New Acropolis Museum, Athens

www.theacropolismuseum.gr/en

4. Marinus’ Affectionate Essay on the Life of His Teacher Proclus – aka ‘On Happiness’

www.jameslongerstuff.blogspot.gr

5. Delphi Archaeological Museum

www.e-delphi.gr

6. Disaster at the Clothing Factory in Samar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Savar_building_collapse

7. Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders)

www.doctorswithoutborders.org

8. Companions for that Long Voyage – Blogpost

http://jamesphilosophicalagora.blogspot.com/2011/05/companions-for-that-long-voyage-know.html

9. New Acropolis Philosophical Organisation. This is the link for the London group but they have groups all over the world.

www.newacropolisuk.org

10. The Prometheus Trust with various resources to download including: Hermeas’ Commentary on The Phaedrus

www.prometheustrust.co.uk/html/files_to_download.html

11. ‘Aristotle’ by Dr A E Taylor

http://store.doverpublications.com/0486202801.html

12. Diotima on Love – Extracts from Symposium:

www.socrates4today.blogspot.com/2015/10/diotima-on-love-extracts.html

13. Movie trailer for ‘The Big Short’ that describes some of the problems leading up to the 2008 global economic crisis:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWr8hbUkG9s

14. Practical Philosophy - Environment – Having the option at least to refill plastic waters bottles:

www.socrates4today.blogspot.com/2018/12/environment-water-bottles-refill-option.html

15. The Population and Sustainability Network (PSN) is the international programme of the Margaret Pyke Trust. (Registered UK Charity No: 1064672) PSN is a group led by volunteer London doctors from their own offices. All money donated to PSN goes to the intended purpose, unlike many ‘organisations’ with expensive staffs and offices. PSN works to advance the understanding of the relationships between population, health and sustainable development issues; and promotes integrated approaches to help solve these interconnected challenges. PSN also advocates the empowerment of women, family planning and sex education. I believe that future generations will be grateful that we ‘started’ to investigate the ideas of a ‘sustainable global population’ and ‘moderate and real sustainable living’ at the start of the 21stcentury – as population now rapidly approaches 7.5 billion people; many of whom will have greater expectations in terms of ‘stuff’ that they want than any previous generation since Socrates’ time. (Keep in mind that the upper estimate for the global population just 200 years ago was only 1.125 billion!)

http://populationandsustainability.org

16. PRAXSIS is an independent Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) whose main goal is the design, application and implementation of humanitarian programs and medical interventions in Athens and other parts of Greece. It is inspiring to see their small fleet of ambulances parked on street corners, largely staffed by young volunteers, providing basic medical care and support for those most in need.

www.praksis.gr/en/about-praksis

Life Choices: Some Recommended Further Reading:

1. ‘Aristotle’ by Dr A. E. Taylor for an excellent and succinct overview of Aristotle’s main areas of study and writing. Alfred Edward Taylor (1869 – 1945) was a fellow of the British Academy (1911) and president of the Aristotelian Society from 1928 to 1929. At Oxford he was made an honorary fellow of New College in 1931.

2. Plato’s Book The Symposium(The Drinking Party) which concerns a number of speakers at a party each giving a talk on the subject of love. Socrates gives one of these speeches which includes within it the wise words of Diotima, a mysterious older woman who instructs Socrates in his youth about love. Diotima also describes a ‘philosophical’ progression in love; which is relevant to the ‘path of the philosopher’. There is an extract available on the Socrates 4 Today Blog (See links list.

3. Plutarch (46 to 120 CE – and not the latter Neo Platonist ‘Plutarch of Athens’) wrote two works still extant, the well-known Lives, and the lesser known Moraliaconsisting of 26 easily read, informative, succinct and entertaining essays on various aspects of ordinary life. The Moralia is very recommended for those seeking to be ‘real’ philosophers. For example, one of these essays is simply titled: ‘How one may be aware of one's progress in virtue’. This amusing essay is full of sensible down to earth tips for young travellers, new philosophers, and older searchers – since one’s progress in virtue is synonymous with one’s progress in ‘real’ philosophy. You may wish to download this book of essays from Amazon at: www.amazon.com/dp/B0082W83DOWhether you read the book or not, remember Plutarch’s important tip: ‘’Furthermore, take care, in reading the writings of philosophers or hearing their speeches that you do not attend to words more than things, nor get attracted more by what is difficult and curious than by what is serviceable and solid and useful.’There is another essay which suggests that friendships do not just have to be defined as sexual or non-sexual – but there is a third way – the sacred.

4. Plotinus (204 to 270 CE) the ‘early’ Neo Platonist was an accomplished philosopher in his on right and often has many charming Platonic echoes in his writings. He is straightforward and understandable. For example, his Essay (Treatise) On the Beautifulfinishes with several useful practical tips on how to make our own lives and actions more beautiful. (www.amazon.com/Essay-Beautiful-Greek-Plotinus-ebook/dp/B0082UI87W )

5. Perhaps try the considerable and varied resources of: The Prometheus Trust. For example, you can download extracts from ‘Hermeas’ commentary on The Phaedrus’ if you want to go deeper into this particular Platonic dialogue. There are also a number of short articles and succinct essays available to download. (See links list.)

6. There is a blog Socrates 4 Today (see links list) where I try to provide important extracts and pieces for people exploring Socrates, Plato and Aristotle more – but with limited time to read longer books cover to cover.

7. The Emperor's New Mind: Concerning Computers, Minds, and the Laws of Physics by eminent mathematician and theoretical physicist Roger Penrose. (2016 Oxford Landmark Science) This is definitely a book for more mathematically minded readers as it discusses the limitations of algorithms (the things that basically make computers function) to perform certain tasks. Mr. Penrose therefore suggests Artificial Intelligence (A.I.) will never be able to match human intelligence on certain things, especially where intuition is required. He also states openly his belief in the ‘Platonic reality’ (of Ideas and Forms] of ‘some’ mathematical ideas, and gives his scientific reasoning for this. This open minded approach, spiced with regular intellectual humility throughout his book, is most refreshing from a scientist of such great stature and influence as Mr. Penrose. There is also a fascinating observation made that all computers of given standard can run the same software programs on them, and there is not much to distinguish between the individual ‘hardware’. This prompts us to consider whether it is the same with human bodies and brains which are also all pretty similar in structure.

Why not spend 2 or 3 days in Delphi …. instead of just taking a day trip from Athens? Delphi in ancient times was considered the centre of the known world and was the spiritual centre of Greece. This was the place on earth where the human being could be as close to the Gods as it was possible to get. Many people say that even today Delphi has very special and positive ‘vibes’ and energy; and that is why it is a good idea to spend a relaxing 2 or 3 days there rather than just a rushed and sweaty 2 or 3 hours there like most ‘day trippers’ do who come from Athens for the day.


For most day trippers the two main things to think about when they get to Delphi is where to get some lunch and what time the bus is leaving to go back to Athens. If you come to Delphi for 2 or 3 days – you have time to think about a whole different bunch of stuff and enjoy the spectacular natural environment here; and soak up the special positive vibes and energy of this small friendly town. For More Info Click: '3 Days In Delphi' ) or click on the image below:



I guess many philosophers like to walk in 'special' places like Delphi....